Setup numbers RS
thank you so much.
11-30-2017, 06:46 PM
#797
Rennlist Member
Great stuff Peter, can’t wait to hear how Honts hold up.
I’d love to know how Manthey addresses the front grip issue since they appear to have max rear wing (albeit no gurney like yours) and diffuser. I recall F Ride being lower but no dive planes.
I’d love to know how Manthey addresses the front grip issue since they appear to have max rear wing (albeit no gurney like yours) and diffuser. I recall F Ride being lower but no dive planes.
11-30-2017, 11:13 PM
#798
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I went out to do some testing with the new Carbon Ceramic rotors, but I also made setup changes in anticipation of the diffuser and 19" R7
The Surface Transforms rotors are fantastic. I always thought that there were minimal benefits in weight, staying clean, etc. but no one told me its like driving with cool brakes all day long.
Resulted in about 0.5seconds a lap benefit, maybe more.
These rotors can be refurbished 5 times so I hope to be running a lot to compare the cost of OEM steel rotors and RE10 pads to this setup.
Even if its more expensive and I thought I was perfectly happy with the steel setup, I already think they are worth it.
All of a sudden the car is way more under tired once the tires get hot.
More here on rotors and video's:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...991-gt3-2.html Post 19.
The Surface Transforms rotors are fantastic. I always thought that there were minimal benefits in weight, staying clean, etc. but no one told me its like driving with cool brakes all day long.
Resulted in about 0.5seconds a lap benefit, maybe more.
These rotors can be refurbished 5 times so I hope to be running a lot to compare the cost of OEM steel rotors and RE10 pads to this setup.
Even if its more expensive and I thought I was perfectly happy with the steel setup, I already think they are worth it.
All of a sudden the car is way more under tired once the tires get hot.
More here on rotors and video's:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...991-gt3-2.html Post 19.
Once you go Ceramic, you can never go back. I know that's how I feel.
12-01-2017, 11:56 AM
#800
Rennlist Member
Peter,
I think you would be better served by upgrading the spring rates, since you prefer to keep the stock shocks, which are totally fine. While the DSC module does help some, it cannot fully provide the benefits of stiffer front springs (and rear springs) for track work. You can easily go up to 400-500# springs on the front without a big change in driving comfort on the road. BBI makes a great package for about $1100. Part of the issue is the weight transfer, and loading of the front, because of inadequate spring rates. In fact, ideally for stiffer springs, the DSC would be used, because it provides better effective "valving" to handle the higher spring rates. So you already have half the battle completed.
Bilstein actually makes a "Clubsport" suspension package for the 991 GT3/RS, which includes double adjustable shocks, springs (456# / 913#), and monoball rear shock mounts. It's a road worthy "track" setup, with TUV road legal status, so you can expect the same long-term OEM service life out of the equipment, and you get the benefit of true motorsport shock technology and adjustment. I have a Clubsport set on my E92 M3, and am definitely purchasing a set for my .2 GT3. It only has 10 clicks of adjustment, so it's also very easy to setup. It's an outstanding setup that will definitely raise the performance bar on the car, but at soft settings gives a refined street ride. Then at the track, stiffen it up and you get a full clubsport/race suspension. Bilstein tested and tuned this kit on a GT3 for 2 weeks at a proving test track facility in Europe prior to release. They don't make the "clubsport" kit for tons of makes/models, so most people don't know just how good this setup is. But trust me, it's good, really good.
You don't want a full race shock on a dual purpose car, because they use seals and internals that require frequent rebuilds, this is where nobody can touch Bilstein (or Ohlins) IMO. But unfortunately, this is what a lot of the smaller "boutique" shock companies sell. The Bilstein kit is more widely used in Europe, where it routinely is tested and shows superior handling/performance to other "clubsport" kits from the likes of KW, etc. etc.
I think you would be better served by upgrading the spring rates, since you prefer to keep the stock shocks, which are totally fine. While the DSC module does help some, it cannot fully provide the benefits of stiffer front springs (and rear springs) for track work. You can easily go up to 400-500# springs on the front without a big change in driving comfort on the road. BBI makes a great package for about $1100. Part of the issue is the weight transfer, and loading of the front, because of inadequate spring rates. In fact, ideally for stiffer springs, the DSC would be used, because it provides better effective "valving" to handle the higher spring rates. So you already have half the battle completed.
Bilstein actually makes a "Clubsport" suspension package for the 991 GT3/RS, which includes double adjustable shocks, springs (456# / 913#), and monoball rear shock mounts. It's a road worthy "track" setup, with TUV road legal status, so you can expect the same long-term OEM service life out of the equipment, and you get the benefit of true motorsport shock technology and adjustment. I have a Clubsport set on my E92 M3, and am definitely purchasing a set for my .2 GT3. It only has 10 clicks of adjustment, so it's also very easy to setup. It's an outstanding setup that will definitely raise the performance bar on the car, but at soft settings gives a refined street ride. Then at the track, stiffen it up and you get a full clubsport/race suspension. Bilstein tested and tuned this kit on a GT3 for 2 weeks at a proving test track facility in Europe prior to release. They don't make the "clubsport" kit for tons of makes/models, so most people don't know just how good this setup is. But trust me, it's good, really good.
You don't want a full race shock on a dual purpose car, because they use seals and internals that require frequent rebuilds, this is where nobody can touch Bilstein (or Ohlins) IMO. But unfortunately, this is what a lot of the smaller "boutique" shock companies sell. The Bilstein kit is more widely used in Europe, where it routinely is tested and shows superior handling/performance to other "clubsport" kits from the likes of KW, etc. etc.
12-01-2017, 02:17 PM
#801
I went out to do some testing with the new Carbon Ceramic rotors, but I also made setup changes in anticipation of the diffuser and 19" R7
The Surface Transforms rotors are fantastic. I always thought that there were minimal benefits in weight, staying clean, etc. but no one told me its like driving with cool brakes all day long.
Resulted in about 0.5seconds a lap benefit, maybe more.
The Surface Transforms rotors are fantastic. I always thought that there were minimal benefits in weight, staying clean, etc. but no one told me its like driving with cool brakes all day long.
Resulted in about 0.5seconds a lap benefit, maybe more.
12-01-2017, 02:47 PM
#802
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Peter,
I think you would be better served by upgrading the spring rates, since you prefer to keep the stock shocks, which are totally fine. While the DSC module does help some, it cannot fully provide the benefits of stiffer front springs (and rear springs) for track work. You can easily go up to 400-500# springs on the front without a big change in driving comfort on the road. BBI makes a great package for about $1100. Part of the issue is the weight transfer, and loading of the front, because of inadequate spring rates. In fact, ideally for stiffer springs, the DSC would be used, because it provides better effective "valving" to handle the higher spring rates. So you already have half the battle completed.
Bilstein actually makes a "Clubsport" suspension package for the 991 GT3/RS, which includes double adjustable shocks, springs (456# / 913#), and monoball rear shock mounts. It's a road worthy "track" setup, with TUV road legal status, so you can expect the same long-term OEM service life out of the equipment, and you get the benefit of true motorsport shock technology and adjustment. I have a Clubsport set on my E92 M3, and am definitely purchasing a set for my .2 GT3. It only has 10 clicks of adjustment, so it's also very easy to setup. It's an outstanding setup that will definitely raise the performance bar on the car, but at soft settings gives a refined street ride. Then at the track, stiffen it up and you get a full clubsport/race suspension. Bilstein tested and tuned this kit on a GT3 for 2 weeks at a proving test track facility in Europe prior to release. They don't make the "clubsport" kit for tons of makes/models, so most people don't know just how good this setup is. But trust me, it's good, really good.
You don't want a full race shock on a dual purpose car, because they use seals and internals that require frequent rebuilds, this is where nobody can touch Bilstein (or Ohlins) IMO. But unfortunately, this is what a lot of the smaller "boutique" shock companies sell. The Bilstein kit is more widely used in Europe, where it routinely is tested and shows superior handling/performance to other "clubsport" kits from the likes of KW, etc. etc.
I think you would be better served by upgrading the spring rates, since you prefer to keep the stock shocks, which are totally fine. While the DSC module does help some, it cannot fully provide the benefits of stiffer front springs (and rear springs) for track work. You can easily go up to 400-500# springs on the front without a big change in driving comfort on the road. BBI makes a great package for about $1100. Part of the issue is the weight transfer, and loading of the front, because of inadequate spring rates. In fact, ideally for stiffer springs, the DSC would be used, because it provides better effective "valving" to handle the higher spring rates. So you already have half the battle completed.
Bilstein actually makes a "Clubsport" suspension package for the 991 GT3/RS, which includes double adjustable shocks, springs (456# / 913#), and monoball rear shock mounts. It's a road worthy "track" setup, with TUV road legal status, so you can expect the same long-term OEM service life out of the equipment, and you get the benefit of true motorsport shock technology and adjustment. I have a Clubsport set on my E92 M3, and am definitely purchasing a set for my .2 GT3. It only has 10 clicks of adjustment, so it's also very easy to setup. It's an outstanding setup that will definitely raise the performance bar on the car, but at soft settings gives a refined street ride. Then at the track, stiffen it up and you get a full clubsport/race suspension. Bilstein tested and tuned this kit on a GT3 for 2 weeks at a proving test track facility in Europe prior to release. They don't make the "clubsport" kit for tons of makes/models, so most people don't know just how good this setup is. But trust me, it's good, really good.
You don't want a full race shock on a dual purpose car, because they use seals and internals that require frequent rebuilds, this is where nobody can touch Bilstein (or Ohlins) IMO. But unfortunately, this is what a lot of the smaller "boutique" shock companies sell. The Bilstein kit is more widely used in Europe, where it routinely is tested and shows superior handling/performance to other "clubsport" kits from the likes of KW, etc. etc.
I expected nothing in lap time, but that's what I seem to have gotten. The changes of more camber and less wing only slowed down, did not help.
12-01-2017, 09:50 PM
#803
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Good points, springs don't cost too much so I will look into that after I sorted all these changes out. Maybe one days shocks. One step at the time!
2RS front uses twice the spring rate of the 3RS and close to Cup rear spring rate. tells you how under sprung the 3RS is...
Cooler brakes, more stopping power, tires cooler longer and reduced unsprung weight.
I expected nothing in lap time, but that's what I seem to have gotten. The changes of more camber and less wing only slowed down, did not help.
2RS front uses twice the spring rate of the 3RS and close to Cup rear spring rate. tells you how under sprung the 3RS is...
Cooler brakes, more stopping power, tires cooler longer and reduced unsprung weight.
I expected nothing in lap time, but that's what I seem to have gotten. The changes of more camber and less wing only slowed down, did not help.
12-02-2017, 06:47 AM
#804
12-02-2017, 09:20 AM
#805
Autoquest
Hey Peter,
FYI, I installed the TI caliper pucks and seat adjusters from Autoquest last year and both have been a done exactly what they are intended to do. I also had Autoquest install the side intake screens recently. This summer I changed the air filters and was shocked at how much rubber had accumulated in the air box. The screens has nicely fabricated and sit a little recessed in the scoop, so I think they look pretty nice as well. Our cars are with side intakes are big vacuum cleaners and mine was just sucking up too much rubber.
I am curious to hear your results on the diffuser. I put a 911R version on my car last year after cutting out a similar hole to the stock one for the trans cooler. Ray, the ford racing engineer that Gavin works with swears that it it a good value for added downforce. I need to run some back to back tests at my home track (Watkins Glen) to see if there really is a difference. I am not consistent enough on Sebring to really feel the difference.
FYI, I installed the TI caliper pucks and seat adjusters from Autoquest last year and both have been a done exactly what they are intended to do. I also had Autoquest install the side intake screens recently. This summer I changed the air filters and was shocked at how much rubber had accumulated in the air box. The screens has nicely fabricated and sit a little recessed in the scoop, so I think they look pretty nice as well. Our cars are with side intakes are big vacuum cleaners and mine was just sucking up too much rubber.
I am curious to hear your results on the diffuser. I put a 911R version on my car last year after cutting out a similar hole to the stock one for the trans cooler. Ray, the ford racing engineer that Gavin works with swears that it it a good value for added downforce. I need to run some back to back tests at my home track (Watkins Glen) to see if there really is a difference. I am not consistent enough on Sebring to really feel the difference.
12-02-2017, 09:40 AM
#806
Comfort Pressure
Sorry Guys,
I have been away from Rennlist for a while, so I have a few things to share.
Two learnings:
1.) the Braille i48cx is not enough battery for an RS. I bought one and installed earlier in the year. It worked fine at Watkins Glen, which has a lot of long sweeping turns. Then in October, I took the car to VIR, which is a bit more twisty, and I started getting rear wheel steering failures about half way through each session. They would auto clear between sessions, but come back when I drove the car hard. I kept driving thinking I needed to recalibrate the rear steering by driving in slow circles left and right, but that didn't make the problem go away. Then in the 3rd session the root issue revealed itself with a battery warning light. Fortunately, I still had the stock battery in my trailer, so I swapped batteries and all issues went away. My sense is that i48CX simply didn't have the amp hours to keep up with the demands of the electric steering.
2.) Separately, but also at VIR (at the end of the back straight) I got a new warning light "comfort pressure reduce speed" my tire pressures were set to 30 hot and I think Porsche sets this warning to 160 MPH on our cars, and if we are running lower track pressures, you may get this warning. Nothing to do about it, but at 161 a light on the dash does get your attention. I am guessing others have seen this, especially at places like daytona, but I didn't see any postings on it here, so I thought I'd mention it.
I have been away from Rennlist for a while, so I have a few things to share.
Two learnings:
1.) the Braille i48cx is not enough battery for an RS. I bought one and installed earlier in the year. It worked fine at Watkins Glen, which has a lot of long sweeping turns. Then in October, I took the car to VIR, which is a bit more twisty, and I started getting rear wheel steering failures about half way through each session. They would auto clear between sessions, but come back when I drove the car hard. I kept driving thinking I needed to recalibrate the rear steering by driving in slow circles left and right, but that didn't make the problem go away. Then in the 3rd session the root issue revealed itself with a battery warning light. Fortunately, I still had the stock battery in my trailer, so I swapped batteries and all issues went away. My sense is that i48CX simply didn't have the amp hours to keep up with the demands of the electric steering.
2.) Separately, but also at VIR (at the end of the back straight) I got a new warning light "comfort pressure reduce speed" my tire pressures were set to 30 hot and I think Porsche sets this warning to 160 MPH on our cars, and if we are running lower track pressures, you may get this warning. Nothing to do about it, but at 161 a light on the dash does get your attention. I am guessing others have seen this, especially at places like daytona, but I didn't see any postings on it here, so I thought I'd mention it.
12-02-2017, 11:58 AM
#807
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Joe,
you happen to to have a picture of the screens or are they not visible?
Ive had them cleaned out but never seen it myself.
I may have to cut a hole but curious to see what it does to temps if I don’t, will check and do back to back running to see the effect on lap times.
next paid change the Ti pucks go in.
ive never seen that message. Not at VIR and not Daytona but I may have been just above the min “comfort” PSI’s
Certainly ran higher PSI at Daytona!
good stuff thanks for posting.
you happen to to have a picture of the screens or are they not visible?
Ive had them cleaned out but never seen it myself.
I may have to cut a hole but curious to see what it does to temps if I don’t, will check and do back to back running to see the effect on lap times.
next paid change the Ti pucks go in.
ive never seen that message. Not at VIR and not Daytona but I may have been just above the min “comfort” PSI’s
Certainly ran higher PSI at Daytona!
good stuff thanks for posting.
12-02-2017, 12:22 PM
#808
Has anyone switched to rose joints yet? Apparently they are going to be used on the gen2 RS (as in the GT2RS) and I can see this would give a big improvement on track. However, with the RWS and other electronics, I find it harder to predict what track focused changes will to the behaviour of the car and longevity of the electronic components.
12-04-2017, 02:52 PM
#809
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
^^ Shouldn't matter. as long as it all moves the same it just takes the flex out of the suspension some.
When I did that on the 997's it wasn't a big difference.
Maybe if the parts are plug&play from the GT2RS or the GT3.2RS I will add.
When I did that on the 997's it wasn't a big difference.
Maybe if the parts are plug&play from the GT2RS or the GT3.2RS I will add.
12-05-2017, 01:29 PM
#810
Former Vendor
Hey Peter,
FYI, I installed the TI caliper pucks and seat adjusters from Autoquest last year and both have been a done exactly what they are intended to do. I also had Autoquest install the side intake screens recently. This summer I changed the air filters and was shocked at how much rubber had accumulated in the air box. The screens has nicely fabricated and sit a little recessed in the scoop, so I think they look pretty nice as well. Our cars are with side intakes are big vacuum cleaners and mine was just sucking up too much rubber.
I am curious to hear your results on the diffuser. I put a 911R version on my car last year after cutting out a similar hole to the stock one for the trans cooler. Ray, the ford racing engineer that Gavin works with swears that it it a good value for added downforce. I need to run some back to back tests at my home track (Watkins Glen) to see if there really is a difference. I am not consistent enough on Sebring to really feel the difference.
FYI, I installed the TI caliper pucks and seat adjusters from Autoquest last year and both have been a done exactly what they are intended to do. I also had Autoquest install the side intake screens recently. This summer I changed the air filters and was shocked at how much rubber had accumulated in the air box. The screens has nicely fabricated and sit a little recessed in the scoop, so I think they look pretty nice as well. Our cars are with side intakes are big vacuum cleaners and mine was just sucking up too much rubber.
I am curious to hear your results on the diffuser. I put a 911R version on my car last year after cutting out a similar hole to the stock one for the trans cooler. Ray, the ford racing engineer that Gavin works with swears that it it a good value for added downforce. I need to run some back to back tests at my home track (Watkins Glen) to see if there really is a difference. I am not consistent enough on Sebring to really feel the difference.
Hi Joe,
you happen to to have a picture of the screens or are they not visible?
Ive had them cleaned out but never seen it myself.
I may have to cut a hole but curious to see what it does to temps if I don’t, will check and do back to back running to see the effect on lap times.
next paid change the Ti pucks go in.
ive never seen that message. Not at VIR and not Daytona but I may have been just above the min “comfort” PSI’s
Certainly ran higher PSI at Daytona!
good stuff thanks for posting.
you happen to to have a picture of the screens or are they not visible?
Ive had them cleaned out but never seen it myself.
I may have to cut a hole but curious to see what it does to temps if I don’t, will check and do back to back running to see the effect on lap times.
next paid change the Ti pucks go in.
ive never seen that message. Not at VIR and not Daytona but I may have been just above the min “comfort” PSI’s
Certainly ran higher PSI at Daytona!
good stuff thanks for posting.
Last edited by AutoQuest Motorsports; 12-05-2017 at 02:34 PM.