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No question ACR will depreciate more than GT3. Not so sure RS. I am unwashed and can't buy RS at MSRP. At market, the ACR-E cost not a lot more than markup on RS. Buy an RS at market and track it extensively and let's see how much it depreciates. I have my GT3 for sale and can assure you its track time is hurting its value. The buyers of these cars affirmatively want no track miles on their trophy car.
And I liked being able to order what I wanted with not issues when I got my ACR.
Truck comment is what it is. Pretty subjective and while I like my GT3 I just don't see it as a be all end all car. I raced the ACR-X in 2010 and it was reliable. We had very few development issues with the new car. My only DNF was alternator failure. But the 997 Cup was faster, as it should have been given its much higher price (X was about 105K)
At the end of the day the ACR-E is indeed wacky stupid fast, engaging to drive with the manual transmission and for a track centric car the pace per dollar is important to me.
And while it is subjective I just like the bespoke nature of the Viper and its crude American ethos. It is cartoonish and vulgar and unapologetic. It takes the boy racer RS wing and turns it to 11
Id prefer a V8 in the back of the 991, but the V10 is such a weird experience to be fair my comments could change after I live with a car for 2 weeks. Always amazes me how the brain adapts to different cars..
One nail in the coffin of the Viper was the $20K price drop after the new model just sat at dealers for $120K-$140K +...
Even though not relative in the real world today, I look at MSRP and overall cost picture and the RS remains the deal out there me thinks, but Oh well I'm biased
Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
If by going strong you mean the z06 overheats on track then sure yeah.
Viper exchange was a great buying experience. Not really sure who else I'd be super into buying a viper from.
The ACR is here for people like Keith and I who have tasted downforce in radicals or formula cars and want that same corner entry confidence you get with the ACR. The P1 is very similar but the ACR is really affordable and even factoring tires is still way cheaper to beat on than a GT3 would have been.
Of course the same cost argument could be made for a GT4 but then you don't get any downforce.
I'd love a C7 GrandSport. What a deal. The Z06 is a disaster, they should have skipped it and maybe some of the reputation would still be salvaged. But they made it too small, I kinda fit in C6, no way in C7..
I can imagine a GT4 TT :-)
Originally Posted by Keith Verges - Dallas
I could go on and on about the mystery of popularity and fashion in American culture, at least to me.
For me at the end of the day, the sales volume or popularity of this car is completely irrelevant to me, and I always wonder why it's relevant to any other prospective buyer. I could've argued that when I drive my Viper I am literally the only one I ever see, whereas the ubiquitous 911 is really kind of banal in Dallas.
+1. Corvette like car built my Porsche would be awesome. But they'd be everywhere. Viper probably more rare than RS around here
Plus I love the whole custom everything as opposed the CCX raping Porsche does.
anyone have an opinion of the GTS vs. a GT3. Is the GTS a bit more tame yet still usable for a track event(one per year) while offering nice weekend fun, cars and coffee,ect.
anyone have an opinion of the GTS vs. a GT3. Is the GTS a bit more tame yet still usable for a track event(one per year) while offering nice weekend fun, cars and coffee,ect.
Most definitely.
The GTS is probably the closest compromise there is -- in terms of a 911 -- between dual purpose track and weekend toy.
If by going strong you mean the z06 overheats on track then sure yeah.
Viper exchange was a great buying experience. Not really sure who else I'd be super into buying a viper from.
The ACR is here for people like Keith and I who have tasted downforce in radicals or formula cars and want that same corner entry confidence you get with the ACR. The P1 is very similar but the ACR is really affordable and even factoring tires is still way cheaper to beat on than a GT3 would have been.
Of course the same cost argument could be made for a GT4 but then you don't get any downforce.
Appreciate the thoughts C.J., but the mere fact that the Z06 still sells and is profitable for GM (despite its tendency to go into limp mode any time the temperature reaches 90F) just sort of underscores the mystery why the Viper isn't more popular and/or profitable for Dodge.
Maybe, as Keith says, it is the dealership network. Then if that's true, the marketing dept. has truly failed the engineering arm of the company.
Appreciate the thoughts C.J., but the mere fact that the Z06 still sells and is profitable for GM (despite its tendency to go into limp mode any time the temperature reaches 90F) just sort of underscores the mystery why the Viper isn't more popular and/or profitable for Dodge.
Maybe, as Keith says, it is the dealership network. Then if that's true, the marketing dept. has truly failed the engineering arm of the company.
Too bad.
I have a lot of respect for the ACR, and if starting from scratch I might consider one. But though the ACR is faster, there are a lot of strong points with the Porsche GT cars, and they're plenty fast for cars that don't have full race car safety systems such as roll cages. So I'm happy with my GT3, and the ACR hasn't been able to lure me into replacing it.
Appreciate the thoughts C.J., but the mere fact that the Z06 still sells and is profitable for GM (despite its tendency to go into limp mode any time the temperature reaches 90F) just sort of underscores the mystery why the Viper isn't more popular and/or profitable for Dodge.
Maybe, as Keith says, it is the dealership network. Then if that's true, the marketing dept. has truly failed the engineering arm of the company.
Too bad.
I think it's a lot more than simply dealers. Z06 is less expensive, and more practical with more compliant suspension and lots of cargo room, and the buyer demographic is pretty low percentage DE driver, so on track prowess is not as big a deal.
First, very few aspire to Dodge or Chevy with their $150K trophy car money. Second, the GenV Viper went too upmarket compared to the Gen IV with a big bump in price but not much in performance. Fancy leather and luxury features were the focus. I personally had no interest in the car at first because it lost the brash, bargain ethos I liked since 1992 when the Viper was introduced.
The ACR-E is back and for all the right reasons for me. But I am not a luxury goods buyer, I am a performance goods buyer. 150K is more luxury goods territory and I don't think the Viper plays well there.
I bet you like the subjectives of the GT3 too much to consider a Viper. 9000 rpm is sweet, the GT3 is more comfortable, it drips engineering quality, and is instantly recognizable with amazing curb appeal and an air of sophistication the Viper can't match.
If all the reasons were apparent and fixable there would be a Viper after 2017, but smarter guys than I can't figure it out either.
To me the beauty and the issue with the Viper ACR is it's just really not a street car at all - it's a street legal race car.
Personally it's beyond the line where I'd just say screw it and go all in with a prototype or a formula car and a trailer. Different I know as you can't drive to the event, but the Viper is extreme enough that I honestly stop looking at street cars as fair competition.
Consumables and crash repairs are far cheaper on a van dieman than a sedan.
I've never crashed a car at a DE. I admit the ACR is more extreme than my GT3, but it is entirely street able. Mind you I DD a Lotus Elise in rotation.
My ACR has a great H-K stereo, excellent fit and finish, nice leather. Really the only compromise is the very rough ride. I can live with that.
I won't modify my ACR and if I have any problems it goes for warranty. That won't happen in a Van Diemen or sadly in my Radical that grenaded its Hewland a while back. I agree a dedicated track car is best and my primary track cars are race cars, but the ACR is just so cool I had to have it. It's a giant middle finger to all the puny street cars that dare to enter a race track.
You know, maybe it's just better at street driving than I'm giving it credit for. Five years ago I would probably drive it to work every day, but I'm not sure I would anymore.
I think the big issue is this: since you have a rotation and have race cars, you have a fleet of some size. I have one 911 that does most everything for me, a motorcycle, an SUV for family stuff, and the wife has her car. Some of that may be philosophy as I realized in the thread about preferring a fleet of cars versus a few cars, but regardless I expect you've progressed financially a good deal beyond where I am today.
If I had about five more cars, the ACR would be really interesting as a different type of experience, and if I were in the market for a track oriented GT3 it would have my attention as a faster, more raw competitor. I absolutely love the idea of that much downforce.
I've not crashed at a DE either and I hope to never. But I personally stay safe by leaving a bit on the table just in case. I would need to be able to afford to ruin a car before I could track it at full pace. While I could prioritize and purchase either, I can't do afford a major accident in an ACR or a GT3, so I would never reach (my) full potential in the car on the track. To me that would be a pity.
So in the end, I would love an ACR if I were in the right place in life. It sounds like a phenomenal machine. And in practical terms, it makes a great thread - especially with that late surprise troll that came in to breathe new life into it so recently!
Jesus, that thing looks like it chews up and spits out track days for appetizers and has a 24hr endurance race for a main course. Thanks for the write-up!
The ACR isn't even close to a "street legal race car," it's a street car that happens to go very fast around a race track. It has a phenomenal 18 speaker sound system, touch screen infotainment, and a nicely finished interior, none of which would be found on a race car. Mine also has the trunk carpeting since it's a 1 of 1. The ride is stiff, but incredibly well damped, which makes it ride much better on all but the worst streets than people give it credit for. On roads in good condition the spring rates are imperceptible from any other car. I recently drove a 991 RS, and I didn't notice that car being any more or less street able. I'd venture that most of the comments that the car is not well suited for street duty come from people who have never driven one on the street. I take my wife to dinner in the ACR, and she doesn't know the difference from any other sports car I've owned aside from the amount of attention it garners. While I wouldn't daily drive it mostly due to parking concerns, it makes a great weekend fun car, and feels special every time. When did people start wanting sports cars that could be mistaken for a luxury sedan from the driver's seat? I drive a boring Lexus during the week, and I want the weekend car to be its polar opposite. The ACR is exactly that, and in my opinion, it is perfect.
The worst part of driving an ACR on the street is the people taking cell phone videos as they simultaneously try to kill you. And knowing you're taking a "supermodel" out on a date, and there's not a chance of seeing what a nasty girl she really is.
05-24-2016, 10:08 AM
