Rennsport V Report...Let's start with the talk of Andreas Preuninger!
#167
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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Not a mistery F dealers at least here are not allowed
to charge MSRP (not indeed because they do philantropy...)
Why Pag is not clear on this? Which we
know very well, as every super inflated bubble,
will end very bad for all Pag too, just matter of time
to charge MSRP (not indeed because they do philantropy...)
Why Pag is not clear on this? Which we
know very well, as every super inflated bubble,
will end very bad for all Pag too, just matter of time
#168
Nate:
a) So you think Detlev & PCNA handled allocations of gt3, RS and
gt4s poorly. What data do we have to support the charge that the
allocation process was mismanaged by Detlev & PCNA? Although
I was critical that Detlev was not able prevent dealers from charging
a markup over MSRP on some desirable gt3 allocations*, I don't
think we have proof of actual malfeasance, or incompetence, on
his part!
b) Surely a better system would have been to allocate more of the
desirable cars to dealers where either you or I had deposits, right?
In my case, I didn't get lucky. In your case, you got a few allocations.
So what is the basis of the particular complaint?
c) Should these nebulous accusations be enough to prevent him from
being considered for promotion to CEO of Porsche at some future date?
Does it also perhaps disqualify him from his new job as PAG's Global
Sales & Marketing head? I don't think so.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
* I sent Detlev an email re: how a few US dealers (albeit independent
franchised businesses, which they are!) were adding a markup over MSRP
to some of the 30 PTS (Signal Green, Arena Red, Fashion Grey) '15 gt3s,
to which he never responded.
Post #32
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...ey-gt3s-3.html
So he is definitely NOT a 'perfect' manager, I'll grant you that!
Who is 'infallible'? Not even this particular pope! But overall Detlev
was a successful & charismatic leader at PCNA during his tenure!
a) So you think Detlev & PCNA handled allocations of gt3, RS and
gt4s poorly. What data do we have to support the charge that the
allocation process was mismanaged by Detlev & PCNA? Although
I was critical that Detlev was not able prevent dealers from charging
a markup over MSRP on some desirable gt3 allocations*, I don't
think we have proof of actual malfeasance, or incompetence, on
his part!
b) Surely a better system would have been to allocate more of the
desirable cars to dealers where either you or I had deposits, right?
In my case, I didn't get lucky. In your case, you got a few allocations.
So what is the basis of the particular complaint?
c) Should these nebulous accusations be enough to prevent him from
being considered for promotion to CEO of Porsche at some future date?
Does it also perhaps disqualify him from his new job as PAG's Global
Sales & Marketing head? I don't think so.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
* I sent Detlev an email re: how a few US dealers (albeit independent
franchised businesses, which they are!) were adding a markup over MSRP
to some of the 30 PTS (Signal Green, Arena Red, Fashion Grey) '15 gt3s,
to which he never responded.
Post #32
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...ey-gt3s-3.html
So he is definitely NOT a 'perfect' manager, I'll grant you that!
Who is 'infallible'? Not even this particular pope! But overall Detlev
was a successful & charismatic leader at PCNA during his tenure!
#169
Rennlist Member
You mean exactly how VW handled the Golf Rs? Pay your deposit, select your dealer, if you weren't happy you could switch dealers by calling VW.
I canceled mine as I didn't want the car, but got a call from VW to mske sure i wasnt upset with it dealer. Much better way to handle it imo.
I canceled mine as I didn't want the car, but got a call from VW to mske sure i wasnt upset with it dealer. Much better way to handle it imo.
#170
Three Wheelin'
I tend to side with Eduardo on this....this is only my opinion and many can disagree but IMO Detlev and PCNA have done a very good job based on production/information provided by mothership. They have an obligation to the entire country's regional areas and must come up with an allocation system that is both as fair possible to dealer body (and dealers police it all the time for fairness) while at times getting slow and sometimes confusing communication from infrastructure in Germany. Unfortunately someone is always going to suffer even in the perfect world but having demand that overrides supply is not always the easiest customer service hurdle to get over. Also, within that mix you have each dealer with a seemingly different manner in which they handle the customer and you can imagine the layers of complications PCNA deals with. Nothing is perfect but Detlev/PCNA have handled most obstacles recently with a reasonable approach (engine recalls on big scale, short production numbers vs demand, requests for production increase with delayed response or "no" as response, etc). PLEASE REMEMBER PCNA DOSENT PRODUCE THE CARS! Eduardo and I have debated in the past (with the utmost respect I might add despite the fact we occasionally feel differently....you're still the man Eduardo!) ultimate influence of PCNA on certain issues. Yes PCNA has some limited input on certain items or designs and a lot of begging is done behind closed doors that we will never know about to help get our market what we want (or more of it) and customer concern items that PAG is responsible for but we must all realize that PAG must say yes to these requests!? Just my 2 cents!!
#171
Rennlist Member
Yes, 918 owners are buying cars at MSRP, no funny business like 'market adjustments'.
PCNA sold 297 cars, but quite a few buyers bought multiple 918s, and those are not likely to buy 2 or 3 of everything, So that drops the VIP allocations to say around 250 or so.
But then some of the 918 buyers are also dealer principals, they don't need the 918 owner status to get 1st dib on everything, but some of these dealer owners also bought multiple 918s so they can flip later, and they for sure ARE ordering multiples in order to flip. If you take these out also, and real allocations to real 918 VIP will be between 150-200. It really isn't a big chunk out of whatever models.
In the end, the bad guys are not the real 918 owners. It's your 'friendly' neighbourhood Porsche dealers. They are the one jacking up MSRP in the first place, and they are all the ones that flips 918 VIP allocations.
#172
Drifting
I can assure you every Porsche exec at PCNA knows about the shenanigans going on in regard to their cars allocations and markups. The best salesman at my dealer (who sold 7 RS's at MSRP) said "if you think they care about this stuff your nuts, they don't want to stick their nose in this at all". PCNA knows if they open this Pandora's box they will be babysitting issues all over the country. That fact the gentleman did not answer Eduardo's question speaks volumes..
#173
Rennlist Member
There is nothing wrong with PCNA handling the allocations, the problem has always been with the dealers. They play favourites and other games to maximize their gouging on customers.
The 918 VIP only means that the 918 owners can bypass their game and they HAD to to be honest with us. Truth is, the dealers hates the 918 owners, cause they screw up the greedy dealers' game plan. Porsche AG, PCNA and other Porsche entities however have a different view.
Out of the 700 or so 918 owners in the world, I have had contact, be it electronically or personally, with around 70-80 or so, they basically are all regular normal car nuts.
#174
I tend to side with Eduardo on this....this is only my opinion and many can disagree but IMO Detlev and PCNA have done a very good job based on production/information provided by mothership. They have an obligation to the entire country's regional areas and must come up with an allocation system that is both as fair possible to dealer body (and dealers police it all the time for fairness) while at times getting slow and sometimes confusing communication from infrastructure in Germany. Unfortunately someone is always going to suffer even in the perfect world but having demand that overrides supply is not always the easiest customer service hurdle to get over. Also, within that mix you have each dealer with a seemingly different manner in which they handle the customer and you can imagine the layers of complications PCNA deals with. Nothing is perfect but Detlev/PCNA have handled most obstacles recently with a reasonable approach (engine recalls on big scale, short production numbers vs demand, requests for production increase with delayed response or "no" as response, etc). PLEASE REMEMBER PCNA DOSENT PRODUCE THE CARS! Eduardo and I have debated in the past (with the utmost respect I might add despite the fact we occasionally feel differently....you're still the man Eduardo!) ultimate influence of PCNA on certain issues. Yes PCNA has some limited input on certain items or designs and a lot of begging is done behind closed doors that we will never know about to help get our market what we want (or more of it) and customer concern items that PAG is responsible for but we must all realize that PAG must say yes to these requests!? Just my 2 cents!!
#175
Race Director
Originally Posted by Mr. Adair
I can assure you every Porsche exec at PCNA knows about the shenanigans going on in regard to their cars allocations and markups. The best salesman at my dealer (who sold 7 RS's at MSRP) said "if you think they care about this stuff your nuts, they don't want to stick their nose in this at all". PCNA knows if they open this Pandora's box they will be babysitting issues all over the country. That fact the gentleman did not answer Eduardo's question speaks volumes..
Many times companies and retailers forget the basic principles of sales and making money. The customer! Especially in good economic times. It's easy to blow through 100K+ cars when the stock market is flying the the gov't is printing money as fast as the presses can. Everyone looks like a golden boy then.
One time an older successful businessman told me a story about someone asking who the boss was. He then pointed to the customers in the place of business we were in, and said "they're the boss". True, isn't it?
Porsche has a VERY loyal customer base at the enthusiast level. Obviously, they've been overshadowed my the Macan/Cayenne crowd. At the end of the day, those loyal ones will support you through thick/thin. Until ... You start taking them for granted. Then, a slow erosion starts.
The USA is one of Porsche's biggest markets right? You'd think such great marketers of automobiles would be just as good marketers to their loyal buyers. Doesn't seem to be the case. Call PCNA, and they don't know you from Joe Dingbat. Even though you may be on your 10th Porsche. You'd think anyone interested in really maximizing their marketing, would have extensive Intel on their most loyal customers. Doesn't seem to be the case. It's always more expensive advertising to the masses. Maybe the plan is to broaden the reach and go after those new sales since the loyals will support you anyway. After all, the Porsche clubs are out there doing the dirty work catering to the enthusiasts.
The true challenge will come when the economic party takes a break, and only then will the scrambling start to appreciate "the boss".
It's easy to look the other way, ignore things, and pull out the charisma card. As they say, easy come, easy go.
All this Internet message board chatter isn't anything to worry about is it? Or is there something to be learned from it. I'd call it free advice ...
#176
Rennlist Member
I can assure you every Porsche exec at PCNA knows about the shenanigans going on in regard to their cars allocations and markups. The best salesman at my dealer (who sold 7 RS's at MSRP) said "if you think they care about this stuff your nuts, they don't want to stick their nose in this at all". PCNA knows if they open this Pandora's box they will be babysitting issues all over the country. That fact the gentleman did not answer Eduardo's question speaks volumes..
The dealers are actually Porsche's customers. We end users are customers of the dealers'. While the dealers ultimately are representatives of Porsche, they do have more sway with Porsche over end users.
There was actually a big 3 way fight between the dealers, 918 owners and Porsche. In the end, we the 918 owners were told basically with the VIP program we ended up bypassing the dealers' games, so what do we care? Well we do care cause everyone thinks we are the bad guys who hogs the allocations.
It isn't actually my fight, I am Canadian, and Canadian dealers can't add market adjustments, and Canada doesn't have that PCNA VIP program, but I do get what I want from Porsche Canada simply because I am one of the earliest 918 buyer here. I am in the fight because I am kind of the frontman for the 918 owners group and fight for my fellow American buyers.
#177
There is nothing wrong with PCNA handling the allocations, the problem has always been with the dealers. They play favourites and other games to maximize their gouging on customers.
The 918 VIP only means that the 918 owners can bypass their game and they HAD to to be honest with us. Truth is, the dealers hates the 918 owners, cause they screw up the greedy dealers' game plan. Porsche AG, PCNA and other Porsche entities however have a different view.
Out of the 700 or so 918 owners in the world, I have had contact, be it electronically or personally, with around 70-80 or so, they basically are all regular normal car nuts.
The 918 VIP only means that the 918 owners can bypass their game and they HAD to to be honest with us. Truth is, the dealers hates the 918 owners, cause they screw up the greedy dealers' game plan. Porsche AG, PCNA and other Porsche entities however have a different view.
Out of the 700 or so 918 owners in the world, I have had contact, be it electronically or personally, with around 70-80 or so, they basically are all regular normal car nuts.
I have no issue with 918 customers or the whole program - have a few friends that picked them up. I'm not bitter about the RS situation with a Viper Green one incoming at MSRP. I'm really disappointed with the future direction of the Company - just my opinion as a professional investor and customer but they're not doing enough to win back my confidence...
#178
Three Wheelin'
What about it has been a good job? Clearly, they misread market demand and pricing on all recent GT products. They left a ton of money on the table and they went with an allocation model 2 more times after it didn't work well the first time. They're rewarding the dealers causing the most damage to the Porsche brand. I agree nothing is perfect, but don't let good get in the way of perfect...
#179
Rennlist Member
Who reports the order to PCNA?
PCNA has no way to verify a legitimate customer order vs a dealer using one of their database entry to create a bogus one.
Ferrari dealers are master of doing that. Porsche dealers are just getting the hang of it.
In the end, the problem always ends with the dealers being the primary suspect.
#180
PAG gives PCNA the number of units they have to allocate, PCNA ("THEY") come up with the allocation method and manage the allocation process. I'm talking about step 2 not step 1