TRAKCAR

I concur with all last posts.

I've only been able to activate SC in very tight, slow 2nd gear corners getting on the throttle to early and in fast corners making mistakes big enough to throw the corner away or possible go off without SC.

It's so good that I see no reason to turn it off unless you want to go Fast and Furious.

orthojoe

Nice to hear from other respected drivers around here that they agree.

I've encountered a few fellas here locally that refuse to accept that ESC/TC is a tool and not a hindrance. Naturally, they are people who have never driven a GT car on track and are basing their opinions on less sophisticated systems, but they are still adamant. They feel so strongly, that they immediately think of you as a 'hack' who doesn't know how to drive.

TRAKCAR

Drive around them without hitting walls scores high on my score card.

Manifold

Sometimes (not always) they're the same people who go on about how little power their cars have compared to ours, but fail to mention that their cars are lighter than ours and have a sh!tload of grip because of sticky tires, track suspension, and aero ...

ChrisF

Being in "I prefer it all off camp",I thought I'd weigh in. For my 997.2 GT3, I always wanted it off. I found it would intervene when the car would unload the suspension or when there was light slip angle. It made a significant difference in lap times and my understanding and enjoyment of the car.

In both 991 GT cars I've driven and in my GT4, the improvement in the systems is truly profound compared to the 997/987 cars. I think I have seen it flick on maybe twice and it was in similar cases to what Trak Car mentioned. To me, if it isn't a hindrance and is even better at doing its job than before, I see no reason to turn it off.

TRAKCAR

Right, 997 almost always faster with SC off, a few very smooth tracks excluded.

Both 997 and 991 systems are very difficult to "use to cheat" and go faster..
So it's just a very good safety net that interfeared on most tracks in 997 but never in 991(RS)

Manifold

That's a good point, and I'll add that stability control could even be a safety issue on track if the system isn't good enough to intervene in the right ways at the right times.

I recall taking my C63 to the track for fun once, and I started with stability control fully on. The intervention when trailbraking at corner entry was so at odds with my expectations that I found the car to be almost undrivable and scary. When I turned stability control off, peace was restored, and I was able to drive the car with understanding and enjoyment again.

At the other end of the spectrum, it would be good for us to all remember that, while the stability control in these new Porsche GT cars may be very good, it surely isn't infallible when dealing with 3D track geometry at high speeds, so it would probably be wise to view the safety net as having some holes in it. For example, I know of a 991 GT3 driver who spun his car at considerable speed with stability control on. I also know of a Cayman R which has been spun three times with stability control on. So while I generally drive the GT3 with stability control on, I rely on my own ability to make needed corrections, not the car's.

orthojoe

Yup. Lol

That's a given. Some are legit drivers, but just haven't driven a car like the new GTs to be able to make a blanket statement like they do. Of course, it's easy to talk big brass ***** when you drive a 'cheap' car. I'd rather have fun in my GT car and have a safety net than not drive a GT car at all because I'm scared to ball it up because I won't drive with esc on....

Nice to hear from another guy who knows his stuff. I think you and trakcar know some of the people I'm referring to (cough, DC, cough). Those guys are knowledgeable, but they haven't tried it out themselves. Chris, what are you going to do with that vanity plate now??

orthojoe

That is a given. The problem that the naysayers are legitimately critical about are the people who bounce off esc and aren't thinking about how to control the car properly

ChrisF

It's sitting on the wall of my garage for now. If I go crawling back to my old car, well...the plate will be there

To go slightly OT, Joe - do you find the TC/SC in the GT4 to be of the same advanced level as the 991 GT3? I have to say it it impressed the hell out of me at Sonoma. Can't wait to push the car a lot harder now that I know it a bit better.

RobertR1

As the systems become more advanced, you'll have cars being designed to run with the "nannies" on from the ground up vs a tacked on system afterwards.

If you compare the TC/SC from either Porsche or the Z06's the past 3 generations, you can quickly experience how far they have advanced.

Having said that, I think it's important for drivers to learn without the systems. You need to learn car control first. It's not a popular opinion when everyone want to go as fast as they can but it'll scale better for you as a driver in the long run. If you can run comfortably run similar laptimes with and without the nannies, then for sure, leave them on for those random moments that do happen. However, if you turn off your nannies and find yourself either going a lot slower and/or all over the place, then perhaps slow down and start working on the car control elements first.

Just know that if you learn car control first, you'll be able to get into most vehicles and go fast.

Manifold

Agreed that good car control is essential to safely and confidently driving fast. Good places to develop car control include karting, autocross, skidpad, snow driving, off road driving, and safer portions of tracks when other cars aren't nearby.

With the 991 GT3 you can also develop car control with SC on because it lets the car get fairly out of shape before intervening, and then when it does intervene it's fairly obvious, so the driver has plenty of opportunity to make needed corrections without help of the car. OTOH, with some other cars, the SC intervention is so conservative and intrusive that the SC probably needs to be off even for novice drivers who lack car control. Again, IMO the decision needs to be specific to both the car and the driver.

orthojoe

I do. It works just as well on the GT4 as it does on the GT3.

trakmor

Agree that leaving traction control on in the new Porsche cars really adds to the safety of the experience on track without detracting much/if anything. I am not good enough to notice it being a hindrance....plus I am driving the car home, I hope. Great article from Road and Track-linked below. The follow up article is even better.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...n-do-in-a-car/

Quick question to those of you with significantly more experience with the GT3 on track than me. How many days are you guys getting out of the Michelin sport cup 2's? Are you switching them from left to right? Curious to see what the consensus is on this one. Thanks btw on the pad/rotor advice--the stock set up in the GT3 is very robust compared to the carrera s that I was used to-am planning on getting slotted rotors in the near future with the stock ones are roasted.

orthojoe

Number of days can be variable and depends on the driver, setup, and track. For me, the front cup2 are lasting 4 days.