Orthojoe's track build journal
#1666
Rennlist Member
I concur with all last posts.
I've only been able to activate SC in very tight, slow 2nd gear corners getting on the throttle to early and in fast corners making mistakes big enough to throw the corner away or possible go off without SC.
It's so good that I see no reason to turn it off unless you want to go Fast and Furious.
I've only been able to activate SC in very tight, slow 2nd gear corners getting on the throttle to early and in fast corners making mistakes big enough to throw the corner away or possible go off without SC.
It's so good that I see no reason to turn it off unless you want to go Fast and Furious.
#1667
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Nice to hear from other respected drivers around here that they agree.
I've encountered a few fellas here locally that refuse to accept that ESC/TC is a tool and not a hindrance. Naturally, they are people who have never driven a GT car on track and are basing their opinions on less sophisticated systems, but they are still adamant. They feel so strongly, that they immediately think of you as a 'hack' who doesn't know how to drive.
I've encountered a few fellas here locally that refuse to accept that ESC/TC is a tool and not a hindrance. Naturally, they are people who have never driven a GT car on track and are basing their opinions on less sophisticated systems, but they are still adamant. They feel so strongly, that they immediately think of you as a 'hack' who doesn't know how to drive.
#1669
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,066
Received 4,381 Likes
on
2,492 Posts
Nice to hear from other respected drivers around here that they agree.
I've encountered a few fellas here locally that refuse to accept that ESC/TC is a tool and not a hindrance. Naturally, they are people who have never driven a GT car on track and are basing their opinions on less sophisticated systems, but they are still adamant. They feel so strongly, that they immediately think of you as a 'hack' who doesn't know how to drive.
I've encountered a few fellas here locally that refuse to accept that ESC/TC is a tool and not a hindrance. Naturally, they are people who have never driven a GT car on track and are basing their opinions on less sophisticated systems, but they are still adamant. They feel so strongly, that they immediately think of you as a 'hack' who doesn't know how to drive.
#1670
Rennlist Member
Being in "I prefer it all off camp",I thought I'd weigh in. For my 997.2 GT3, I always wanted it off. I found it would intervene when the car would unload the suspension or when there was light slip angle. It made a significant difference in lap times and my understanding and enjoyment of the car.
In both 991 GT cars I've driven and in my GT4, the improvement in the systems is truly profound compared to the 997/987 cars. I think I have seen it flick on maybe twice and it was in similar cases to what Trak Car mentioned. To me, if it isn't a hindrance and is even better at doing its job than before, I see no reason to turn it off.
In both 991 GT cars I've driven and in my GT4, the improvement in the systems is truly profound compared to the 997/987 cars. I think I have seen it flick on maybe twice and it was in similar cases to what Trak Car mentioned. To me, if it isn't a hindrance and is even better at doing its job than before, I see no reason to turn it off.
#1671
Rennlist Member
Right, 997 almost always faster with SC off, a few very smooth tracks excluded.
Both 997 and 991 systems are very difficult to "use to cheat" and go faster..
So it's just a very good safety net that interfeared on most tracks in 997 but never in 991(RS)
Both 997 and 991 systems are very difficult to "use to cheat" and go faster..
So it's just a very good safety net that interfeared on most tracks in 997 but never in 991(RS)
#1672
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,066
Received 4,381 Likes
on
2,492 Posts
Being in "I prefer it all off camp",I thought I'd weigh in. For my 997.2 GT3, I always wanted it off. I found it would intervene when the car would unload the suspension or when there was light slip angle. It made a significant difference in lap times and my understanding and enjoyment of the car.
In both 991 GT cars I've driven and in my GT4, the improvement in the systems is truly profound compared to the 997/987 cars. I think I have seen it flick on maybe twice and it was in similar cases to what Trak Car mentioned. To me, if it isn't a hindrance and is even better at doing its job than before, I see no reason to turn it off.
In both 991 GT cars I've driven and in my GT4, the improvement in the systems is truly profound compared to the 997/987 cars. I think I have seen it flick on maybe twice and it was in similar cases to what Trak Car mentioned. To me, if it isn't a hindrance and is even better at doing its job than before, I see no reason to turn it off.
I recall taking my C63 to the track for fun once, and I started with stability control fully on. The intervention when trailbraking at corner entry was so at odds with my expectations that I found the car to be almost undrivable and scary. When I turned stability control off, peace was restored, and I was able to drive the car with understanding and enjoyment again.
At the other end of the spectrum, it would be good for us to all remember that, while the stability control in these new Porsche GT cars may be very good, it surely isn't infallible when dealing with 3D track geometry at high speeds, so it would probably be wise to view the safety net as having some holes in it. For example, I know of a 991 GT3 driver who spun his car at considerable speed with stability control on. I also know of a Cayman R which has been spun three times with stability control on. So while I generally drive the GT3 with stability control on, I rely on my own ability to make needed corrections, not the car's.
#1673
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
Drive around them without hitting walls scores high on my score card.
Originally Posted by Manifold
Sometimes (not always) they're the same people who go on about how little power their cars have compared to ours, but fail to mention that their cars are lighter than ours and have a sh!tload of grip because of sticky tires, track suspension, and aero ...
Originally Posted by ChrisF
Being in "I prefer it all off camp",I thought I'd weigh in. For my 997.2 GT3, I always wanted it off. I found it would intervene when the car would unload the suspension or when there was light slip angle. It made a significant difference in lap times and my understanding and enjoyment of the car.
In both 991 GT cars I've driven and in my GT4, the improvement in the systems is truly profound compared to the 997/987 cars. I think I have seen it flick on maybe twice and it was in similar cases to what Trak Car mentioned. To me, if it isn't a hindrance and is even better at doing its job than before, I see no reason to turn it off.
In both 991 GT cars I've driven and in my GT4, the improvement in the systems is truly profound compared to the 997/987 cars. I think I have seen it flick on maybe twice and it was in similar cases to what Trak Car mentioned. To me, if it isn't a hindrance and is even better at doing its job than before, I see no reason to turn it off.
#1674
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Manifold
So while I generally drive the GT3 with stability control on, I rely on my own ability to make needed corrections, not the car's.
#1675
Rennlist Member
To go slightly OT, Joe - do you find the TC/SC in the GT4 to be of the same advanced level as the 991 GT3? I have to say it it impressed the hell out of me at Sonoma. Can't wait to push the car a lot harder now that I know it a bit better.
#1676
As the systems become more advanced, you'll have cars being designed to run with the "nannies" on from the ground up vs a tacked on system afterwards.
If you compare the TC/SC from either Porsche or the Z06's the past 3 generations, you can quickly experience how far they have advanced.
Having said that, I think it's important for drivers to learn without the systems. You need to learn car control first. It's not a popular opinion when everyone want to go as fast as they can but it'll scale better for you as a driver in the long run. If you can run comfortably run similar laptimes with and without the nannies, then for sure, leave them on for those random moments that do happen. However, if you turn off your nannies and find yourself either going a lot slower and/or all over the place, then perhaps slow down and start working on the car control elements first.
Just know that if you learn car control first, you'll be able to get into most vehicles and go fast.
If you compare the TC/SC from either Porsche or the Z06's the past 3 generations, you can quickly experience how far they have advanced.
Having said that, I think it's important for drivers to learn without the systems. You need to learn car control first. It's not a popular opinion when everyone want to go as fast as they can but it'll scale better for you as a driver in the long run. If you can run comfortably run similar laptimes with and without the nannies, then for sure, leave them on for those random moments that do happen. However, if you turn off your nannies and find yourself either going a lot slower and/or all over the place, then perhaps slow down and start working on the car control elements first.
Just know that if you learn car control first, you'll be able to get into most vehicles and go fast.
#1677
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,066
Received 4,381 Likes
on
2,492 Posts
As the systems become more advanced, you'll have cars being designed to run with the "nannies" on from the ground up vs a tacked on system afterwards.
If you compare the TC/SC from either Porsche or the Z06's the past 3 generations, you can quickly experience how far they have advanced.
Having said that, I think it's important for drivers to learn without the systems. You need to learn car control first. It's not a popular opinion when everyone want to go as fast as they can but it'll scale better for you as a driver in the long run. If you can run comfortably run similar laptimes with and without the nannies, then for sure, leave them on for those random moments that do happen. However, if you turn off your nannies and find yourself either going a lot slower and/or all over the place, then perhaps slow down and start working on the car control elements first.
Just know that if you learn car control first, you'll be able to get into most vehicles and go fast.
If you compare the TC/SC from either Porsche or the Z06's the past 3 generations, you can quickly experience how far they have advanced.
Having said that, I think it's important for drivers to learn without the systems. You need to learn car control first. It's not a popular opinion when everyone want to go as fast as they can but it'll scale better for you as a driver in the long run. If you can run comfortably run similar laptimes with and without the nannies, then for sure, leave them on for those random moments that do happen. However, if you turn off your nannies and find yourself either going a lot slower and/or all over the place, then perhaps slow down and start working on the car control elements first.
Just know that if you learn car control first, you'll be able to get into most vehicles and go fast.
With the 991 GT3 you can also develop car control with SC on because it lets the car get fairly out of shape before intervening, and then when it does intervene it's fairly obvious, so the driver has plenty of opportunity to make needed corrections without help of the car. OTOH, with some other cars, the SC intervention is so conservative and intrusive that the SC probably needs to be off even for novice drivers who lack car control. Again, IMO the decision needs to be specific to both the car and the driver.
#1678
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ChrisF
It's sitting on the wall of my garage for now. If I go crawling back to my old car, well...the plate will be there
To go slightly OT, Joe - do you find the TC/SC in the GT4 to be of the same advanced level as the 991 GT3? I have to say it it impressed the hell out of me at Sonoma. Can't wait to push the car a lot harder now that I know it a bit better.
To go slightly OT, Joe - do you find the TC/SC in the GT4 to be of the same advanced level as the 991 GT3? I have to say it it impressed the hell out of me at Sonoma. Can't wait to push the car a lot harder now that I know it a bit better.
#1679
Intermediate
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree that leaving traction control on in the new Porsche cars really adds to the safety of the experience on track without detracting much/if anything. I am not good enough to notice it being a hindrance....plus I am driving the car home, I hope. Great article from Road and Track-linked below. The follow up article is even better.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...n-do-in-a-car/
Quick question to those of you with significantly more experience with the GT3 on track than me. How many days are you guys getting out of the Michelin sport cup 2's? Are you switching them from left to right? Curious to see what the consensus is on this one. Thanks btw on the pad/rotor advice--the stock set up in the GT3 is very robust compared to the carrera s that I was used to-am planning on getting slotted rotors in the near future with the stock ones are roasted.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...n-do-in-a-car/
Quick question to those of you with significantly more experience with the GT3 on track than me. How many days are you guys getting out of the Michelin sport cup 2's? Are you switching them from left to right? Curious to see what the consensus is on this one. Thanks btw on the pad/rotor advice--the stock set up in the GT3 is very robust compared to the carrera s that I was used to-am planning on getting slotted rotors in the near future with the stock ones are roasted.
#1680
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by trakmor
Agree that leaving traction control on in the new Porsche cars really adds to the safety of the experience on track without detracting much/if anything. I am not good enough to notice it being a hindrance....plus I am driving the car home, I hope. Great article from Road and Track-linked below. The follow up article is even better.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...n-do-in-a-car/
Quick question to those of you with significantly more experience with the GT3 on track than me. How many days are you guys getting out of the Michelin sport cup 2's? Are you switching them from left to right? Curious to see what the consensus is on this one. Thanks btw on the pad/rotor advice--the stock set up in the GT3 is very robust compared to the carrera s that I was used to-am planning on getting slotted rotors in the near future with the stock ones are roasted.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...n-do-in-a-car/
Quick question to those of you with significantly more experience with the GT3 on track than me. How many days are you guys getting out of the Michelin sport cup 2's? Are you switching them from left to right? Curious to see what the consensus is on this one. Thanks btw on the pad/rotor advice--the stock set up in the GT3 is very robust compared to the carrera s that I was used to-am planning on getting slotted rotors in the near future with the stock ones are roasted.