Consolidated 991RS thread
02-22-2015, 12:54 PM
#4741
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Will the 'WhatEverOther' hue offered as the second 'Special Color' also have its own coordinated deviating stitching? It depends. If the color is indeed 'Purple', I doubt it! Only light deviating stitching colors contrast well against a 'black leather & alcantara interior'. 'Purple' stitching on 'black/alcantara' seats, steering wheel, dash & door panels would be pointless since it would be hardly noticed. Interestingly though, the standard 'GT Silver' deviating stitching would go great with a 'Purple' exterior color gt3 RS. It would be very elegant & stylish. If the 'WhatEverOther' special color turns out NOT to be 'Purple' but is instead a bright 70's vintage color, we could well see a second coordinated stitching color to match! In general with the gt3 RS series, the less exterior color choices offered, the better coordinated the RS interiors are to the limited exterior colors offered. A mouthful to say...but I hope you understand the peculiar 'Porsche Exclusive' logic behind it!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
What is your expectation for the mystery purple? Do you think we may see a light purple hue to contrast with the vents and so on?
The only 911s I have seen in purple are in darker purples or plum. A light purple then could represent new ground?!
02-22-2015, 01:17 PM
#4743
Take a look at the 2 last colors ...
http://cdb.vwcolor.info/de/AdvancedS...rsenessGroup=0
http://cdb.vwcolor.info/de/AdvancedS...rsenessGroup=0
02-22-2015, 02:50 PM
#4744
One point of clarification: my satin vs gloss comment was referencing wheel finish whereas it sounds like you're addressing the earlier rumored matte body finish...Otherwise, agree with all your comments. And no question lighter colors will play best on this RS though there will still be those that want to "murder it out" in triple black....
Thanks for the interesting recap of RS colours Eduardo! Regarding the comment above, are you suggesting the RS will have significantly more outsourced body panels than the GT3? If not, and assuming production numbers will not be an order of magnitude smaller than the GT3, why not offer at least as many colour options as the GT3? Do you think it is more an issue of creating distinction from the lesser 911 lineup through the use of a limited colour palette than of production capacity? I think it would be really great to see black, SB, RY, etc, as options too. And PTS would be SOOOO special on this car. I really hope it becomes available. To my mind, at the very least, it's hard to imagine 918 customers not being offered PTS.
b) The above only matters in relation to PAG wanting to simplify production to insure absolute best QUALITY CONTROL on this, their top GT model in the 911 line.
c) PAG's recent history is one of offering limited colors on their gt3 RS's...but making those few count! To paraphrase wording often used by our current president 'Colors that punch above their weight'. To the general public & to devoted enthusiasts of the marque, MY2007/MY2008 'RS Orange' & 'RS Green' stuck a cord in their collective imagination which will persist for a generation of admirers! So it doesn't surprise me that PAG intends to do the same on the 991 gt3 RS by offering just a few colors on this limited run go cars. But, if it is to repeat history, PAG will make at least two of those colors very MEMORABLE. And invariably, these two 'special colors' will be permanently linked to whatever imprint this model leaves as a legacy at Porsche!
Eduardo, thank you for your thoughts! What is your expectation for the mystery purple? Do you think we may see a light purple hue to contrast with the vents and so on? The only 911s I have seen in purple are in darker purples or plum. A light purple then could represent new ground?!
I also can't have access to that link. But we previously talked about this piece of the puzzle regarding 'Lava Orange' at this forum:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...l#post11929568
Has the same been leaked about a 'Purple' for the 991 gt3 RS?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
02-22-2015, 03:18 PM
#4746
Nordschleife Master
Suncoast now carries the infrared lap trigger. Only $1,000
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...91GT3EnginePER
I think if my RS comes through I will go sportchrono/track app delete.
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...91GT3EnginePER
I think if my RS comes through I will go sportchrono/track app delete.
02-22-2015, 03:33 PM
#4747
02-22-2015, 03:35 PM
#4748
Also, the 8,800 rpm limit disappoints me less thanks to your math relating to piston speeds. In your opinion, is this attributed to a cost 'savings' on the part of the manufacturer (Porsche) or are we seeing the bleeding edge of technology here in regards to metallurgy science. In essence, if Porsche, Ferrari, etc., upgraded the metal used in these high(est) of performance street engines (pistons, rods, rod bolts, crankshaft, etc...) offered on the market today, could we see engines redlining at 10,000 or more RPM with durability remaining the same?
There is a tradeoff between longevity and RPM. In their race cars (RSR, etc) Porsche runs higher corrected piston speeds, but the price is frequent rebuilds. Two ring pistons (vs three in street cars) are lighter, allowing more revs, but they wear out and leak sooner. Similarly the titanium rods and aluminum pistons will reach their fatigue life sooner, but that's fine if you're rebuilding an engine every 30 hours.
A street engine needs to be built to a longer lifespan, so one can't push as far. However at 8,800 rpm the 991 GT3 RS is pushing stresses and metallurgy as far as any street car I'm aware of: 26.74 m/s "corrected" piston speed is essentially equal the 918's 26.75.
For comparison other high revving and piston speed street car engines are lower: the LFA turns 9,500 rpm, but the short stroke means corrected piston speed is 26.2.
S2000 @ 9k rpm is 25.7
RS5 at 8.4k and a long 92.8mm stoke is 24.8 (despite a higher uncorrected piston speed of 26 m/s).
Porsche could easily turn 10k rpm by shortening the stroke and increasing bore, but with an engine of the current dimensions I don't think there is anything they could do to get significantly more revs. Slightly more, ie 9k rpm, might be possible by pushing and eating into the margin of error, but 10k is not technically possible at the moment with street durability, likely regardless of the money spent.
Bikes are the only street engines I know that push higher, the BMW S1000RR for example is up at 29.4 m/s corrected, but I suspect this is because their longevity targets are much lower.
02-22-2015, 04:45 PM
#4749
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911 derivative, I suspect a car we here would have killed for...
I think Porsche is very close to the limits of metallurgy with their target durability.
There is a tradeoff between longevity and RPM. In their race cars (RSR, etc) Porsche runs higher corrected piston speeds, but the price is frequent rebuilds. Two ring pistons (vs three in street cars) are lighter, allowing more revs, but they wear out and leak sooner. Similarly the titanium rods and aluminum pistons will reach their fatigue life sooner, but that's fine if you're rebuilding an engine every 30 hours.
A street engine needs to be built to a longer lifespan, so one can't push as far. However at 8,800 rpm the 991 GT3 RS is pushing stresses and metallurgy as far as any street car I'm aware of: 26.74 m/s "corrected" piston speed is essentially equal the 918's 26.75.
For comparison other high revving and piston speed street car engines are lower: the LFA turns 9,500 rpm, but the short stroke means corrected piston speed is 26.2.
S2000 @ 9k rpm is 25.7
RS5 at 8.4k and a long 92.8mm stoke is 24.8 (despite a higher uncorrected piston speed of 26 m/s).
Porsche could easily turn 10k rpm by shortening the stroke and increasing bore, but with an engine of the current dimensions I don't think there is anything they could do to get significantly more revs. Slightly more, ie 9k rpm, might be possible by pushing and eating into the margin of error, but 10k is not technically possible at the moment with street durability, likely regardless of the money spent.
Bikes are the only street engines I know that push higher, the BMW S1000RR for example is up at 29.4 m/s corrected, but I suspect this is because their longevity targets are much lower.
I think Porsche is very close to the limits of metallurgy with their target durability.
There is a tradeoff between longevity and RPM. In their race cars (RSR, etc) Porsche runs higher corrected piston speeds, but the price is frequent rebuilds. Two ring pistons (vs three in street cars) are lighter, allowing more revs, but they wear out and leak sooner. Similarly the titanium rods and aluminum pistons will reach their fatigue life sooner, but that's fine if you're rebuilding an engine every 30 hours.
A street engine needs to be built to a longer lifespan, so one can't push as far. However at 8,800 rpm the 991 GT3 RS is pushing stresses and metallurgy as far as any street car I'm aware of: 26.74 m/s "corrected" piston speed is essentially equal the 918's 26.75.
For comparison other high revving and piston speed street car engines are lower: the LFA turns 9,500 rpm, but the short stroke means corrected piston speed is 26.2.
S2000 @ 9k rpm is 25.7
RS5 at 8.4k and a long 92.8mm stoke is 24.8 (despite a higher uncorrected piston speed of 26 m/s).
Porsche could easily turn 10k rpm by shortening the stroke and increasing bore, but with an engine of the current dimensions I don't think there is anything they could do to get significantly more revs. Slightly more, ie 9k rpm, might be possible by pushing and eating into the margin of error, but 10k is not technically possible at the moment with street durability, likely regardless of the money spent.
Bikes are the only street engines I know that push higher, the BMW S1000RR for example is up at 29.4 m/s corrected, but I suspect this is because their longevity targets are much lower.
Just speculation, what engine "design"
do you think the next .2 RS ( if any ) might be based
to get the more hp torque?
(assuming NA no turbo nor kers)
02-22-2015, 05:02 PM
#4751
I feel like Porsche has never really engaged in HP wars, and they have typically been rather content to offer only small HP bumps from generation to generation. My uneducated guess was 505-510hp. Maybe the .2 will be NA and they are saving some room for that model?
At the HP levels these cars are at now, I think we are starting to see diminishing returns. At least on a circuit.
At the HP levels these cars are at now, I think we are starting to see diminishing returns. At least on a circuit.
02-22-2015, 05:13 PM
#4752
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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keeping the same 991 impressive piston speed as of today and avoid reliability
issues (
Mezger 997.2 RS 4.0 either if not correlated i ve just seen 1 exploding oil circuit on track)
the RS 991.2 should increase bore only to 4.2 and keep current stroke
so piston speed the same either the reliability
issues (
Mezger 997.2 RS 4.0 either if not correlated i ve just seen 1 exploding oil circuit on track)the RS 991.2 should increase bore only to 4.2 and keep current stroke
so piston speed the same either the reliability
02-22-2015, 05:52 PM
#4753
Rennlist Member
911 derivative, I suspect a car we here would have killed for...
I think Porsche is very close to the limits of metallurgy with their target durability.
There is a tradeoff between longevity and RPM. In their race cars (RSR, etc) Porsche runs higher corrected piston speeds, but the price is frequent rebuilds. Two ring pistons (vs three in street cars) are lighter, allowing more revs, but they wear out and leak sooner. Similarly the titanium rods and aluminum pistons will reach their fatigue life sooner, but that's fine if you're rebuilding an engine every 30 hours.
A street engine needs to be built to a longer lifespan, so one can't push as far. However at 8,800 rpm the 991 GT3 RS is pushing stresses and metallurgy as far as any street car I'm aware of: 26.74 m/s "corrected" piston speed is essentially equal the 918's 26.75.
For comparison other high revving and piston speed street car engines are lower: the LFA turns 9,500 rpm, but the short stroke means corrected piston speed is 26.2.
S2000 @ 9k rpm is 25.7
RS5 at 8.4k and a long 92.8mm stoke is 24.8 (despite a higher uncorrected piston speed of 26 m/s).
Porsche could easily turn 10k rpm by shortening the stroke and increasing bore, but with an engine of the current dimensions I don't think there is anything they could do to get significantly more revs. Slightly more, ie 9k rpm, might be possible by pushing and eating into the margin of error, but 10k is not technically possible at the moment with street durability, likely regardless of the money spent.
Bikes are the only street engines I know that push higher, the BMW S1000RR for example is up at 29.4 m/s corrected, but I suspect this is because their longevity targets are much lower.
I think Porsche is very close to the limits of metallurgy with their target durability.
There is a tradeoff between longevity and RPM. In their race cars (RSR, etc) Porsche runs higher corrected piston speeds, but the price is frequent rebuilds. Two ring pistons (vs three in street cars) are lighter, allowing more revs, but they wear out and leak sooner. Similarly the titanium rods and aluminum pistons will reach their fatigue life sooner, but that's fine if you're rebuilding an engine every 30 hours.
A street engine needs to be built to a longer lifespan, so one can't push as far. However at 8,800 rpm the 991 GT3 RS is pushing stresses and metallurgy as far as any street car I'm aware of: 26.74 m/s "corrected" piston speed is essentially equal the 918's 26.75.
For comparison other high revving and piston speed street car engines are lower: the LFA turns 9,500 rpm, but the short stroke means corrected piston speed is 26.2.
S2000 @ 9k rpm is 25.7
RS5 at 8.4k and a long 92.8mm stoke is 24.8 (despite a higher uncorrected piston speed of 26 m/s).
Porsche could easily turn 10k rpm by shortening the stroke and increasing bore, but with an engine of the current dimensions I don't think there is anything they could do to get significantly more revs. Slightly more, ie 9k rpm, might be possible by pushing and eating into the margin of error, but 10k is not technically possible at the moment with street durability, likely regardless of the money spent.
Bikes are the only street engines I know that push higher, the BMW S1000RR for example is up at 29.4 m/s corrected, but I suspect this is because their longevity targets are much lower.
02-22-2015, 07:20 PM
#4755
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Take a look at this:
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3...5ebgk3_jpg.htm
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3...5ebgk3_jpg.htm