Panorama GT3 Review
08-18-2013, 09:37 PM
#76
You have been up front and balanced and I'm not questioning your experience or POV except to say that you've not tried PDK-S, especially in a 991 GT3, and there is information that suggests previous experience with PDK or other DCT may not be particularly useful. I haven't driven PDK-S either, of course, but I'm optimistic and I hope it's fair to say that you're not-so-much. One of us will probably end up being surprised.....
I think we might both have our suspicions confirmed, however- there's still plenty of room for both opinions to be correct. Or there would be...
I guy in our club has a very early allocation, so I may have the chance to try for myself sooner rather than later.
08-18-2013, 10:17 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
I very much recommend having an aircooled in the garage. For one it provides the perfect "night and day" machine to the new 991 GT3 and I for one find this the huge draw of the 991 GT3 - that I can own and enjoy the best of where its "at now" whilst having the best of "where it was then". If you are a true "driver involvement" type then you are wasting bandwidth talking about 997 GT3 comparisons - you need to try something earlier. If you really want to go fast in this car on the track you best learn car control, entry and exit points, braking and balance perfectly and heel & toe is a very useful skill to have along with left foot braking.
My 993 is in the process of having some work done currently to make it a bit more track and tarmac rally friendly.
Dont deny yourself an aircooled experience. Just look at the jewel like quality, compactness and finish of these cars - they even LOOK MECHANICAL and organic before you even turn the key and hear the "thwump thwump" of the engine. Sure 300 bhp in a 1300kg/2850lb package isnt huge but set up properly (i.e. modified) this car will lap a 2.5 mile circuit maybe 3-4 seconds slower than last generations GT3 (stock)...
Food for thought but if you think its all getting too fast and loosing driver involvement suggest you all backdate to a 993 or earlier and realize how far the equations has already been diluted!
My 993 is in the process of having some work done currently to make it a bit more track and tarmac rally friendly.
Dont deny yourself an aircooled experience. Just look at the jewel like quality, compactness and finish of these cars - they even LOOK MECHANICAL and organic before you even turn the key and hear the "thwump thwump" of the engine. Sure 300 bhp in a 1300kg/2850lb package isnt huge but set up properly (i.e. modified) this car will lap a 2.5 mile circuit maybe 3-4 seconds slower than last generations GT3 (stock)...
Food for thought but if you think its all getting too fast and loosing driver involvement suggest you all backdate to a 993 or earlier and realize how far the equations has already been diluted!
Last edited by Macca; 08-18-2013 at 11:06 PM.
08-18-2013, 10:26 PM
#79
Rennlist Member
It's correct that I've not tried the PDK-S, and I've said that I'm open to it, and might give an RS a try. However people I generally agree with that have tried it (CH, Stout) have said that in some situations they miss the manual. Given this and my prior experience I find it nearly certain I'll occasionally feel the same.
I think we might both have our suspicions confirmed, however- there's still plenty of room for both opinions to be correct. Or there would be...
I guy in our club has a very early allocation, so I may have the chance to try for myself sooner rather than later.
I think we might both have our suspicions confirmed, however- there's still plenty of room for both opinions to be correct. Or there would be...
I guy in our club has a very early allocation, so I may have the chance to try for myself sooner rather than later.
I really strongly believe that you need to "live" with this new box to understand if the benefits out weight the losses. For me, like I suspect for you, its sometimes very easy to have a car that just a bit too focused and thus doesnt get the seat time it really deserves. If I found myself doubling my seat time in a 991 GT3 over say a 996.1 GT3 because I simply found it more fun and convenient to drive more of the time (i.e. less compromised in some situations) then that may go some way to balancing the "GAP analysis" on the car (by way of a simple example).
08-18-2013, 10:56 PM
#80
Race Director
It's correct that I've not tried the PDK-S, and I've said that I'm open to it, and might give an RS a try. However people I generally agree with that have tried it (CH, Stout) have said that in some situations they miss the manual. Given this and my prior experience I find it nearly certain I'll occasionally feel the same.
I think we might both have our suspicions confirmed, however- there's still plenty of room for both opinions to be correct. Or there would be...
I guy in our club has a very early allocation, so I may have the chance to try for myself sooner rather than later.
I think we might both have our suspicions confirmed, however- there's still plenty of room for both opinions to be correct. Or there would be...
I guy in our club has a very early allocation, so I may have the chance to try for myself sooner rather than later.
BTW, "or there would be".....what?
Last edited by Mike in CA; 08-19-2013 at 12:00 AM.
08-18-2013, 10:58 PM
#81
I very much recommend having an aircooled in the garage. For one it provides the perfect "night and day" machine to the new 991 GT3 and I for one find this the huge draw of the 991 GT3 - that I can own and enjoy the best of where its "at now" whilst having the best of "where it was then". If you are a true "driver involvement" type then you are wasting bandwidth talking about 997 GT3 comparisons - you need to try something earlier. If you really want to go fast in this car on the track you best learn car control, entry and exit points, braking and balance perfectly and heel & toe is a very useful skill to have along with left foot braking.
My 993 is in the process of having some work done currently to make it a bit more track and tarmac rally friendly.
Dont deny yourself an aircolled experience. Just look at the jewel like quality, compactness and finish of these cars - the even LOOK MECHANICAL and organic before you even turn the key and hear the "thwump thwump" of the engine. Sure 300 bhp in a 1300kg/2850lb package isnt huge but set up properly (i.e. modified) this car will lap a 2.5 mile circuit maybe 2 seconds slower than last generations GT3 (stock)...
Food for thought but if you think its all getting too fast and loosing driver involvement suggest you all backdate to a 993 or earlier and realize how far the equations has already been diluted!
My 993 is in the process of having some work done currently to make it a bit more track and tarmac rally friendly.
Dont deny yourself an aircolled experience. Just look at the jewel like quality, compactness and finish of these cars - the even LOOK MECHANICAL and organic before you even turn the key and hear the "thwump thwump" of the engine. Sure 300 bhp in a 1300kg/2850lb package isnt huge but set up properly (i.e. modified) this car will lap a 2.5 mile circuit maybe 2 seconds slower than last generations GT3 (stock)...
Food for thought but if you think its all getting too fast and loosing driver involvement suggest you all backdate to a 993 or earlier and realize how far the equations has already been diluted!
Great pics, too. And don't forget to get tubes of high energy impact plastic over the cage.
I concur 100%. If you've not owned a 993, you're missing out on one of the great eras of the 911. And if 300hp is an issue, get a turbo and get it tuned for 520hp / 520tq with near lag free throttle response and "Sweet Mother!" reactions from your passengers just by a gentle straight line acceleration on a freeway ramp. : )
08-18-2013, 11:15 PM
#82
Rennlist Member
I spent 10 minutes talking with Hurley Haywood in the paddock at Laguna during the Historics yesterday. I asked him if he had driven the new GT3 and what did he think of it. Don't have time now (headed back to Laguna in 5) to recount the whole conversation but the first word out of his mouth was "awesome". I also asked him if Porsche did the right thing in not offering a MT and he gave me his instructor's perspective on why a DCT like PDK offered many advantages, especially on track.
I mentioned that I had PDK in my 997.2 S and that I was looking forward to trying PDK-S in the 991 GT3. His comment was that the PDK-S experience was so far removed from PDK that it will be something completely different for me. He said that basically Porsche has engineered into PDK-S the ability to do virtually anything you can do with a manual. He was particularly enthusiastic about the paddle neutral feature. Apparently you can even engage neutral to blip the throttle in manual mode to rev match yourself on downshifts.
Hurley is a Porsche guy so make of this what you will. But he is very sincere and straightforward and I walked away feeling very reinforced about how much fun this car will be to drive.
I mentioned that I had PDK in my 997.2 S and that I was looking forward to trying PDK-S in the 991 GT3. His comment was that the PDK-S experience was so far removed from PDK that it will be something completely different for me. He said that basically Porsche has engineered into PDK-S the ability to do virtually anything you can do with a manual. He was particularly enthusiastic about the paddle neutral feature. Apparently you can even engage neutral to blip the throttle in manual mode to rev match yourself on downshifts.
Hurley is a Porsche guy so make of this what you will. But he is very sincere and straightforward and I walked away feeling very reinforced about how much fun this car will be to drive.
08-19-2013, 06:17 AM
#83
Three Wheelin'
. Of course wife, bank balance and garage space disagrees with me 
.
08-21-2013, 09:04 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
"Mooty" is definitely not real, as evidenced by Frayed's query into how he can live in SF with all that hardware in another thread. 
As to this thread, perhaps most interesting to me is this: The story's extensive commentary about suspension, RWS, e-Diff, etc—all of which are amazing and "organic" in use—as well as the chassis' significant advancements over the 997-2 GT3 have been completely obscured by a discussion that's already been beaten to death. While the story did indeed raise this sea-changing issue—which is critical to some customers—I suspect the lines of text devoted to PDK-S pale in number against those devoted to the rest of the new GT3. That said, I didn't count them.
To me, it's a pity to see a car so great obscured by a fixation on one element—and all the more because it didn't have to be this way. Years ago, GM told its customers it knew what they wanted better than they did. At some level, I think that was the beginning of its fall. You didn't see it on the balance sheets, at least not initially, but...
The only thing worse is watching enthusiasts who are getting what they want show so little concern for their fellow man/woman/enthusiast—or, worse, label them. For some, this is not a matter of progress, it is a matter of preference and what some perceive as interaction/involvement. I for one am thrilled that the GT3 is now available with PDK-S, because it improves performance and makes the GT3 experience available to more enthusiasts—and what's not to like about that? I suspect those open to PDK will LOVE this car. But I am saddened that Porsche has gone the way of Ferrari instead of offering its customers the choice that BMW—and...Cadillac!—does.
pete
As to this thread, perhaps most interesting to me is this: The story's extensive commentary about suspension, RWS, e-Diff, etc—all of which are amazing and "organic" in use—as well as the chassis' significant advancements over the 997-2 GT3 have been completely obscured by a discussion that's already been beaten to death. While the story did indeed raise this sea-changing issue—which is critical to some customers—I suspect the lines of text devoted to PDK-S pale in number against those devoted to the rest of the new GT3. That said, I didn't count them.
To me, it's a pity to see a car so great obscured by a fixation on one element—and all the more because it didn't have to be this way. Years ago, GM told its customers it knew what they wanted better than they did. At some level, I think that was the beginning of its fall. You didn't see it on the balance sheets, at least not initially, but...
The only thing worse is watching enthusiasts who are getting what they want show so little concern for their fellow man/woman/enthusiast—or, worse, label them. For some, this is not a matter of progress, it is a matter of preference and what some perceive as interaction/involvement. I for one am thrilled that the GT3 is now available with PDK-S, because it improves performance and makes the GT3 experience available to more enthusiasts—and what's not to like about that? I suspect those open to PDK will LOVE this car. But I am saddened that Porsche has gone the way of Ferrari instead of offering its customers the choice that BMW—and...Cadillac!—does.
pete
08-21-2013, 09:18 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
Well said Pete. Im open to PDK and a 991 GT3 buyer. Im also a dyed in the wool MT 911 guy, so we will see how that pans out. Its a shame as you say that the cars advancements are, most often, clouded in a shroud of PDK-S v MT debate. I have hope as I think it will suit my usage of the car. I guess it would have been nice to have the choice however...
08-21-2013, 09:26 PM
#88
Rennlist Member
Pete, put an elephant in the room and people will not notice the furniture.
FWIW, your message was loud and clear. As a writer not much more you can ask for.
FWIW, your message was loud and clear. As a writer not much more you can ask for.
08-22-2013, 03:01 AM
#90
GT3 player par excellence
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