Panorama GT3 Review
08-22-2013, 04:06 PM
#106
Race Director
08-22-2013, 04:14 PM
#107
Rennlist Member
No problem tmg57. We obviously share good taste in colors. 
I'm also a long time manual driver (40 years) who made the switch to PDK with my 997.2 S so manifold's post was appropriate to both of us.
manifold, as I've said many times, despite the fact that I'm fully comfortable with PDK-S in the GT3, I completely understand why some MT drivers are still hesitant. I've never put down anyone as a luddite, or made any other negative comment about anyone just for preferring a MT.
My posts about PDK vs MT have always revolved around two areas. First, there are the issues that tmg57 brought up; the negative assumptions about people who appreciate PDK which, BTW, began long before I ever saw any references to MT drivers as luddites. Those put-downs have been around since the introduction of PDK in 2009.
The second has been a suggestion that before condemning all DCT's as soulless, uninvolving, and no fun to drive we should wait for reviews and personal experience with this DCT in this car before writing off the concept as a failure. The reviews we're now seeing are skewing strongly in the positive direction, with a few caveats, and personal experience is still to come so even now the jury is still out, although it's looking pretty good.
Will some remain unconvinced? No doubt. Should they be considered luddites and will I ever call anyone that? Absolutely not.
I'm also a long time manual driver (40 years) who made the switch to PDK with my 997.2 S so manifold's post was appropriate to both of us.manifold, as I've said many times, despite the fact that I'm fully comfortable with PDK-S in the GT3, I completely understand why some MT drivers are still hesitant. I've never put down anyone as a luddite, or made any other negative comment about anyone just for preferring a MT.
My posts about PDK vs MT have always revolved around two areas. First, there are the issues that tmg57 brought up; the negative assumptions about people who appreciate PDK which, BTW, began long before I ever saw any references to MT drivers as luddites. Those put-downs have been around since the introduction of PDK in 2009.
The second has been a suggestion that before condemning all DCT's as soulless, uninvolving, and no fun to drive we should wait for reviews and personal experience with this DCT in this car before writing off the concept as a failure. The reviews we're now seeing are skewing strongly in the positive direction, with a few caveats, and personal experience is still to come so even now the jury is still out, although it's looking pretty good.
Will some remain unconvinced? No doubt. Should they be considered luddites and will I ever call anyone that? Absolutely not.
I'm still unconvinced, actually even more so after the EVO glorious test drive that PDK-S will offer enough fun, or even any fun at all.
I wont know until I drive it for a while on and off track but it may be PDK-S may still be that it kills the experience for me in an otherwise really fun car, even in white. But I wont shut up until I drive it. C'mon...
Than again, hang on; Maybe CUP car white is undeserving for a car that has nothing in common with the CUP car..
****, now I cant get it in white either
Why is my life so complicated
08-22-2013, 04:18 PM
#108
Burning Brakes
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CUP Cararra White is the only right color, red is terrible. Other than that Mike is right.
I'm still unconvinced, actually even more so after the EVO glorious test drive that PDK-S will offer enough fun, or even any fun at all.
I wont know until I drive it for a while on and off track but it may be PDK-S may still be that it kills the experience for me in an otherwise really fun car, even in white. But I wont shut up until I drive it. C'mon...
Than again, hang on; Maybe CUP car white is undeserving for a car that has nothing in common with the CUP car..
****, now I cant get it in white either
Why is my life so complicated
I'm still unconvinced, actually even more so after the EVO glorious test drive that PDK-S will offer enough fun, or even any fun at all.
I wont know until I drive it for a while on and off track but it may be PDK-S may still be that it kills the experience for me in an otherwise really fun car, even in white. But I wont shut up until I drive it. C'mon...
Than again, hang on; Maybe CUP car white is undeserving for a car that has nothing in common with the CUP car..
****, now I cant get it in white either
Why is my life so complicated
..In your case I would have kept the 4.0 and then if the 991 GT3 would a reliable trakcar..get one used in 3-4 years..and life wouldnt be complicated at all..
08-22-2013, 04:36 PM
#109
Rennlist Member
You are correct. Very complicated though...
I thought the same, than the 4.0 became too valuable and expensive to track and or insure.
The same problem the 991RS will suffer so now looking for a cheaper manual 996 CUP cararra white LOL.
Still probably take Euro delivery RS to check it out and then sell before I bash it into the wall at T17 and buy it back when it depreciated a few years later, or not.
I thought the same, than the 4.0 became too valuable and expensive to track and or insure.
The same problem the 991RS will suffer so now looking for a cheaper manual 996 CUP cararra white LOL.
Still probably take Euro delivery RS to check it out and then sell before I bash it into the wall at T17 and buy it back when it depreciated a few years later, or not.
08-22-2013, 04:40 PM
#110
Three Wheelin'
08-22-2013, 04:56 PM
#112
Three Wheelin'
. They pair you up and I was sharing the car with a track rat and he was always doing that. Real bad part is they make you drive Panamera hybrid and Cayenne on a parking lot.
08-22-2013, 05:00 PM
#113
Racer
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The PDK-S will be fantastic at the track where you can simply divert the attention you would normally pay to heel-n-toeing into perfecting your braking point, turn-in, balancing the car on the line and getting on the power. Involvement would be 100% either way.
For anyone to say they would be bored at the track - essentially what you are saying is that you are so good at all the aspects of driving at the limit that accomplishing these doesn't require your full attention and, further, it requires so little of your skills that you are likely to get bored! I don't think so.
On the street - totally different story. I went from manual to PDK and immediately found it boring on the street. This new box with the sequential-like lever I'm hoping will be better but there is zero chance it is going to be as engaging for me as a manual on the street driving at normal speeds - no way. Let's not pretend...
For anyone to say they would be bored at the track - essentially what you are saying is that you are so good at all the aspects of driving at the limit that accomplishing these doesn't require your full attention and, further, it requires so little of your skills that you are likely to get bored! I don't think so.
On the street - totally different story. I went from manual to PDK and immediately found it boring on the street. This new box with the sequential-like lever I'm hoping will be better but there is zero chance it is going to be as engaging for me as a manual on the street driving at normal speeds - no way. Let's not pretend...
08-22-2013, 05:35 PM
#114
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The PDK-S will be fantastic at the track where you can simply divert the attention you would normally pay to heel-n-toeing into perfecting your braking point, turn-in, balancing the car on the line and getting on the power. Involvement would be 100% either way.
For anyone to say they would be bored at the track - essentially what you are saying is that you are so good at all the aspects of driving at the limit that accomplishing these doesn't require your full attention and, further, it requires so little of your skills that you are likely to get bored! I don't think so.
On the street - totally different story. I went from manual to PDK and immediately found it boring on the street. This new box with the sequential-like lever I'm hoping will be better but there is zero chance it is going to be as engaging for me as a manual on the street driving at normal speeds - no way. Let's not pretend...
For anyone to say they would be bored at the track - essentially what you are saying is that you are so good at all the aspects of driving at the limit that accomplishing these doesn't require your full attention and, further, it requires so little of your skills that you are likely to get bored! I don't think so.
On the street - totally different story. I went from manual to PDK and immediately found it boring on the street. This new box with the sequential-like lever I'm hoping will be better but there is zero chance it is going to be as engaging for me as a manual on the street driving at normal speeds - no way. Let's not pretend...
Well said. And anyone driving on streets fast enough to make it fun is driving too fast!
08-22-2013, 05:43 PM
#115
08-22-2013, 06:04 PM
#116
Tell us how you really feel! Actually, I've only seen one GT3, white, and it looked very good. I like my white 991. However, last week I saw three stylish cars parked side by side. A white 458, a red 430, and a yellow Lambo of some variety (I think they're all ugly so I don't bother to try to identify them). Anyway, the white car just "disappeared" in that group. Just something to think about...
08-22-2013, 06:11 PM
#117
Race Director
See, this is where this conversation always goes off the rails. People keep extrapolating from previous experiences with another DCT or with old PDK, and then making ironclad, definitive predictions based on that about a new, completely reworked gearbox mated to a brand new car they've never driven.
It's all subjective, of course, which is another reason why making claims one way or the other about who will enjoy what and where is pointless. Kind of like claiming white is a better color than red when it's obviously not.
Which reminds me, Peter, the word from Hurley Haywood in Monterey was that the new GT3 would be showing up at the Porsche Driving Experience in January (I think tmg57 posted this info). Might be a good way to try it out as given your plans for key snatching you're not likely to find my car anywhere near Florida.
No way I could have said that better.....
It's all subjective, of course, which is another reason why making claims one way or the other about who will enjoy what and where is pointless. Kind of like claiming white is a better color than red when it's obviously not.
Which reminds me, Peter, the word from Hurley Haywood in Monterey was that the new GT3 would be showing up at the Porsche Driving Experience in January (I think tmg57 posted this info). Might be a good way to try it out as given your plans for key snatching you're not likely to find my car anywhere near Florida.
No way I could have said that better.....
08-22-2013, 06:24 PM
#118
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08-22-2013, 07:29 PM
#119
Rennlist Member
That said, they were performed beautifully...to the point I had to remind myself to write about them. They just worked. Thinking about it, they're probably among the best street-car brakes I have sampled, and maybe even the best. Nice feel, great modulation, no unwanted noise, fantastic stopping power (arguably more a measure of the new Dunlops), and no fade experienced despite a thorough pounding on tight roads.
Given that they're "million-dollar" 918 brakes, they also seem a decent value at $9k. And given the size of the new wheels, the size of the brakes (and thus the unsprung weight), I'd have to have them if I was going to use the car on the street. For track work, well...then an expensive upgrade becomes insanely expensive.
08-22-2013, 07:30 PM
#120