Carrera GT

I think I see what you're picking up on, but prosaic criticism like "off the reservation" is unwarranted; much as I'm a critic of what passes for automotive journalism, it's patently undeserved in the case of the Panorama article on the 991 GT3.

I think the writer did very surefooted job of making it obvious he's not going to walk a fine line, he's going to call a spade a spade. This kind of writing calls for the backspace key to be taken off the keyboard. Write whole paragraphs, then find the tone of the story -- and it's a fun story about a first drive of a car already on a pedestal of accolades at the same time as being torn down by vocal critics.

I think the piece builds a good case without being argumentation or sounding plaintiff. I wish half the stuff I've written here showed this measure of careful consideration. : ) If anything, we could look back on this article when the RS arrives and see how the door was opened for the RS to be given a third pedal and what I think is tantamount to a reprieve from the death sentence of sameness and conformity. That's wishful thinking on my part, I imagine the jig is up, and I'm not suggesting I'd even buy the third pedal in the RS, but it should be there nonetheless.

Maybe I'm a little jarred from a week of sleep deprivation and long miles in slow traffic to travel short distances between car events around Pebble Beach, so perhaps I'm too critical of the GT3 at first contact and I'll defer further navel gazing till I drive one at the track for long enough to turn in some decent laps. I think this article paid credit where it's due and drew attention to aspects of this new GT3 that existing and prospective GT3 drivers will want to consider.

frayed

I'm not entirely certain why you guys are being so sensitive about Pete's article. Aside from pDK he basically said the car is perfect. So the central issue regarding this car for him is the lack of a manual. If you can't get over then don't buy the car if one is open to it buy. I think it's that simple.

It's also rather silly to think that anybody can write purely objective article. Any writer brings his or her prejudices to the table

Manifold

Good article. Appropriate praise of the car, appropriate laments. Not a car for everyone, but some will love it and others will accept it while continuing to notice what's missing.

I found it interesting that he's OK with PDK on track, but prefers manual on the road. I've been moving towards the same sentiment myself.

Petevb

Nick, without attempting to make an accusation, can I ask what your vehicle and driving experience is?

I ask this because you've wholeheartedly supported the switch to PDK, declaring the manual dead in modern performance cars. However many journalists and amateurs have made the same observation Pete did, and recognise the manual as the more involving driving experience. In fact it often seems as if the more experienced and better the driver, the more they miss a manual. I've found this personally, after owning both a dual-clutch car and manuals. The other experienced drivers/ racers I know personally to a man have felt the same way after spending real seat time in a PDK car.

So my honest question is are you also an experienced driver who has extensive seat time in both and decided the PDK is the better driving experience? Would you care to detail what you've owned, and what you do with your cars, to help me understand your particular perspective?

Second question: knowing that everyone is different and a sizable number of people feel the way Pete does, why shouldn't he express his opinion?

Nick

I have owned Porsche's manuals through the 996. I attended the very first Porsche driving school at Road Atlanta. I met and spoke at length with Hurley Haywood rode with him (a white knuckle ride; he warned me he would be driving without PSM and I could get out if I felt uncomfortable) as he raced Dave Murrey on Road Atlanta. I asked him if he had to buy a Porsche today what would he buy? He told me he would buy a Turbo with Tiptronic (yes I wrote Tiptronic). When I asked him why, he said for performance manual is dead. He enjoyed driving Tip much more.

In 2002, I bought a Ferrari 360 manual. However, when servicing the car I had an opportunity to drive a 360 with the paddles. Shortly thereafter I traded my 360 manual for a 360 F1. I continued to buy Ferrari's including a couple of 430's F1. I attended driving schools for Ferrari and raced my Porsche's primarily at Willow Springs in Lancaster.

I have driven the Carrera GT several times (my good friend owned one) and I believe one of the first in the US to drive one. I also have had spirited driving events with the Ferrari Stradale.

As a driver, I consider myself average. In the past I would not have considered the GT3 but decided to buy the 991 because of the representation that it was much more compliant for DD and it was PDk-S.

Regarding the article, Pete did a disservice to his craft by smartly weaving in his personal feelings about the lack of MT in the 991GT3 and subtly saying the car is not as much fun as prior GT3's.

Manifold

I'm not understanding why Pete, as the one who tested the car and wrote the article, shouldn't be expressing his opinions on the subjective aspects of the car from his personal perspective. The objective aspects of the car are already fairly well known. Seems that some people may be suffering from confirmation bias, filtering out info which doesn't fit their preconceptions of the car (given that they haven't driven it).

Nizer

Nope, my snail-mail copy hasn't landed yet. Pete posted a heads-up elsewhere and I just passed it along for the benefit of Rennlist readers. Maybe he skipped posting here because he's not keen on being labeled a jihadist.

Nick

I respectfully disagree.

Pete was there to on behalf of Panorama (which may have been his problem) to critically evaluate the 991GT3. However, because of his bias favoring MT his review was written before he drove the 991GT3. Read it carefully. What he wrote we already knew so he decided to placate his subscribers by lashing out at Porsche and the GT3 for failing to make MT available. Read his last paragraph in the "opinion" piece. Basically, it was a veiled threat with the hope the decision not to make MT available not to be cemented in stone.

I have the highest regard for Peter Stout. He is a class act when it comes to journalism. We all make mistakes and Pete made one with this article.

orthojoe

I would agree with this sentiment. Seeing as I would use a 991 GT3 as primarily a track toy, it would work out just fine for me. The peformance level of these new cars is so high, that a manual is more of a liability than a asset. A slower car gives you more time to prepare and calculate for upcoming shift points. With the closing speeds modern performance cars are now capable of, amateurs (which we all are unless we're getting paid to drive) are only at a higher risk of screwing up. Missed shift leads to coming into a corner too hot, frantic last minute shift leads to a money shift. Guys with hairy chests will say that it takes skill to drive a manual. Yes, it does, but those same hairy chested guys are not perfect every time, and I guarantee you their lap times will be faster with DCT transmissions even if they are perfect.

I'm a manual fan too. I get the interaction you get, and I enjoy feel of heel/toe. However, I know what my limits are. If I want that kind of interaction, I will drive a slower car (see my sig). If I want the thrill of the lastest high performance car, the PDK advantage is fine by me. Mooty REALLY hit the nail on the head with this post:

mooty

that's what I said since day one!
get what u like
don't get what u don't like
ignore ppl around u
go burn some fuel

Macca

Nick. Agree with you 100% on your POV here. It was a great article but didnt need the personal piece tacked to the end. All that did was undermine a great bit of journalism - we got the message in the body text that Pete felt the only real downside was the lack of MT.

Interestingly from the collection of 10 artciles I have they are split 50/50 on the preference for PDK & Manual....

Petevb

Thank you for that background.

I share most of Pete Stout's point of view on the manual vs PDK debate, and thus I thank him for voicing that opinion- he's clearly not the only one who feels this way.

Currently for me both a manual and dual clutch have advantages/ disadvantages for different usage, and thus on a particular day I might prefer one of the other. If I'm headed out to a time-trial I'd have to say the PDK would be favored. There is zero question that it's quicker, eliminates the chance of a money shift, and as I'm at the limits of the car and completely involved in the driving experience I wouldn't miss the extra involvement (some would say distraction) of shifting gears myself. Hurley Haywood was totally correct from this perspective- for performance (if by that you mean lap time) the manual has been dead in the fastest cars for years, since before the cup car went sequential. No argument there.

However most of us don't buy a GT-3 only for lap time, otherwise we'd all be driving modified GT-Rs, Radicals, or Cup cars.

I do consider myself an above average driver (or at least I have enough TTODs to kid myself), however I'm fully aware that there are plenty better than I am. Owning both manual and dual clutch cars I have realized that for me, on the street, in the US, I genuinely prefer the manual. When the road opens up and I'm limited not by the car but by better judgement and common sense the manual gives me a more interactive, enjoyable experience. That experience is not about getting from A to B as quickly as possible, but rather it's about dancing with the car and the road, and the manual makes for a more engaging dance partner, for me. Also for a number of my friends: my buddy's a good shoe (won the PCA parade AX a couple years ago)- he was planning on getting a PDK until he spent a few weeks in a 991S PDK which convinced him otherwise.

Thus I knew even before the review that a sizable number of us are missing the manual option, and I think Pete great job of both confirming for me that's still likely to be the case even with the latest advancements and of giving a voice to us. Specifically calling this out as personal opinion makes perfect sense to me- clearly not everyone, or even most, are going to feel the same way. But he's a car guy, and one that I respect. If he doesn't come away after driving this great car wanting it, that's a) something I want to know, and b) something that needs to be said. It would be dishonest of him to do otherwise.

This article isn't likely to endear Pete to our friends in Weissach. Being one of three journalist invited to try this car first was a great honor, and I think on some level he put the opportunity to do that again on the line by saying what he thought. However one must consider that Porsche sent that invite to journalist who made their reputation by saying what they think. They got honesty in return, and that's exactly as it should be.

Nick

I assume you will not be buying a 991GT3? Given your belief (that is all it is) that a MT is more involving and fun to drive it appears going forward your options for high performance sport cars are very limited.

FWIW, Hurley did say that involvement was more about the road, steering, speed and keeping the car balanced. MT impairs the driver in these critical areas.

What I do not get how people claim that MT is more fun in DD. Usually in DD you are not doing speed but nevertheless must ********** with your right arm and left leg to keep the car going. If that is the definition of fun/involvement I must be missing something. Shifting in traffic is a pain to be inflicted on gluttons for punishment. Thankfully, I am not one of those.

That said, I do respect your preference for manual and honestly hope that Porsche with the RS provides those of you seeking "involvement" a MT.

As I wrote earlier, Peter Stout did not need to drive the 991GT3 to write his article. His mind was made up before driving the car. He should have passed indicating to Porsche "Look I am a traditional car guy and I strongly believe that in cars like the GT3 it must be a manual. I would be wasting your and my time driving the car. It will not change my mind".

Maybe Panorama would have been wiser to send another journalist with a more open mind.

TRAKCAR

I you don't understand the joy of a MT, you indeed miss something.

Manifold

^ Agree that shifting manual in traffic is a pain, but I presume that most of us talking about reasonably open roads where we're not just crawling along.

I still respectfully disagree with your characterization of the article. The way I read it, he gave his honest opinion of the car, and the evidence indicates that his opinion is worth something, even if many don't share his opinion. And it's not necessarily about being a traditional vs modern guy, the subjective experience of driving a car doesn't have to framed in those terms.