The 991 GT3/RS Cars For Sale Thread...
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JohnnyF1ve (12-30-2020)
12-30-2020, 05:59 PM
#902
The price is not that much of a bargain for its MSRP, 18.5K and 8500 used miles. For that price, you will be crazy not to add a few grand and pick up a .1 RS.
But I agree listings have been the lowest for both GT3 and RS in many many months. Surprisingly GT4's of both gen can't seem to move. There is one sitting at my local AD for months now. Got a call from them at start of year as if they are doing me a favor. Still sitting there. I thought at prices similar to a base 992 carrera, a 4.0 NA motor (even not derived from GT motor) and manual trans these things should move.
12-30-2020, 06:15 PM
#903
Not knocking the color nor number for sale it’s math 40 or so cars for sale .1/.2. LO and were launch color cars and top color choices purchased. They don’t do so well on trade. Spec is good to me not looking at price that’s all negotiable ...........see the car you like if it’s the one you love I say buy it.
12-30-2020, 06:26 PM
#904
Com'on this is the only L.O. of ~ 40 991.1 GT3's on sale in the U.S.
The price is not that much of a bargain for its MSRP, 18.5K and 8500 used miles. For that price, you will be crazy not to add a few grand and pick up a .1 RS.
But I agree listings have been the lowest for both GT3 and RS in many many months. Surprisingly GT4's of both gen can't seem to move. There is one sitting at my local AD for months now. Got a call from them at start of year as if they are doing me a favor. Still sitting there. I thought at prices similar to a base 992 carrera, a 4.0 NA motor (even not derived from GT motor) and manual trans these things should move.
The price is not that much of a bargain for its MSRP, 18.5K and 8500 used miles. For that price, you will be crazy not to add a few grand and pick up a .1 RS.
But I agree listings have been the lowest for both GT3 and RS in many many months. Surprisingly GT4's of both gen can't seem to move. There is one sitting at my local AD for months now. Got a call from them at start of year as if they are doing me a favor. Still sitting there. I thought at prices similar to a base 992 carrera, a 4.0 NA motor (even not derived from GT motor) and manual trans these things should move.
The following 2 users liked this post by Rausky:
atlrvr (12-30-2020),
isellpower (01-04-2021)
12-30-2020, 07:16 PM
#905
Intermediate
Haha exact same boat here. It's tempting to <cough>..."settle"... for a PDK, but i always come to my senses and continue the search. The black .2 gt3 PDK that sold for $134k on pcarmarket was extremely tempting.
12-30-2020, 08:00 PM
#906
Not knocking the color nor number for sale it’s math 40 or so cars for sale .1/.2. LO and were launch color cars and top color choices purchased. They don’t do so well on trade. Spec is good to me not looking at price that’s all negotiable ...........see the car you like if it’s the one you love I say buy it.
Launch color does not do well on second markets is a popular misconception not backed by data. I monitored % of LO or LG for sale over the time and they never showed up more than ~ 30% which was the & of build spec. And, I have not seen statistically meaningful discount for either the launch colors. Anecdotal experience has no meaning and you will find "evidence" to support what you believe. On the opposite, I have seen some swear the purple is the only color they will buy, but when the market is glutted with .1 GT3's those were the ones sitting there longest.
Being rare is not enough you also need to have the demand. Many more copies of steel Daytona were made but find one below MSRP. The fact that 1/3 of those cars were ordered launch color already says something about it. You think buyers plucking down near quarter million for a toy did not know they are buying a crowded color that may be difficult to sell? Nobody is stupid. Markets usually go against what most believe. It ani't that simple my friend.
12-30-2020, 08:08 PM
#907
I don't recall either generation of GT3 had a "launch color". You are referring to RS but that's a different market. Lava orange was a special color for .2 GT3 and you need spend a few grands more for it.
Launch color does not do well on second markets is a popular misconception not backed by data. I monitored % of LO or LG for sale over the time and they never showed up more than ~ 30% which was the & of build spec. And, I have not seen statistically meaningful discount for either the launch colors. Anecdotal experience has no meaning and you will find "evidence" to support what you believe. On the opposite, I have seen some swear the purple is the only color they will buy, but when the market is glutted with .1 GT3's those were the ones sitting there longest.
Being rare is not enough you also need to have the demand. Many more copies of steel Daytona were made but find one below MSRP. The fact that 1/3 of those cars were ordered launch color already says something about it. You think buyers plucking down near quarter million for a toy did not know they are buying a crowded color that may be difficult to sell? Nobody is stupid. Markets usually go against what most believe. It ani't that simple my friend.
Launch color does not do well on second markets is a popular misconception not backed by data. I monitored % of LO or LG for sale over the time and they never showed up more than ~ 30% which was the & of build spec. And, I have not seen statistically meaningful discount for either the launch colors. Anecdotal experience has no meaning and you will find "evidence" to support what you believe. On the opposite, I have seen some swear the purple is the only color they will buy, but when the market is glutted with .1 GT3's those were the ones sitting there longest.
Being rare is not enough you also need to have the demand. Many more copies of steel Daytona were made but find one below MSRP. The fact that 1/3 of those cars were ordered launch color already says something about it. You think buyers plucking down near quarter million for a toy did not know they are buying a crowded color that may be difficult to sell? Nobody is stupid. Markets usually go against what most believe. It ani't that simple my friend.
correct launch on RS cars, and my neighbor works for PCNA ..........not here to argue with you. Go sit with your Porsche GM and he will tell you what cars are discounted more on trade. By the way a stainless Daytona is not hard to get below MSRP in Europe (: By the way many buy the car they want, and not thinking or knowing what it will be worth. Speedsters allocations were 200k because people wanted them, and RS’s were 50k over ..........cars are not about rational thinking it’s a want nothing to do with stupid bro.
Last edited by Maverick787; 12-30-2020 at 08:13 PM.
12-30-2020, 09:28 PM
#908
"my neighbor works for PCNA"
Cleaning lady or president? How someone employed by PCNA knows resale market? LOL
"By the way a stainless Daytona is not hard to get below MSRP in Europe"
Make me laugh hard. You don't know what you are talking about dude! Buy 10 of them, flip without any effort and the profits will net you a used GT car
"cars are not about rational thinking it’s a want nothing to do with stupid bro."
You just made my point there is a want of launch color
Cleaning lady or president? How someone employed by PCNA knows resale market? LOL
"By the way a stainless Daytona is not hard to get below MSRP in Europe"
Make me laugh hard. You don't know what you are talking about dude! Buy 10 of them, flip without any effort and the profits will net you a used GT car
"cars are not about rational thinking it’s a want nothing to do with stupid bro."
You just made my point there is a want of launch color
12-30-2020, 09:40 PM
#909
"my neighbor works for PCNA"
Cleaning lady or president? How someone employed by PCNA knows resale market? LOL
"By the way a stainless Daytona is not hard to get below MSRP in Europe"
Make me laugh hard. You don't know what you are talking about dude! Buy 10 of them, flip without any effort and the profits will net you a used GT car
"cars are not about rational thinking it’s a want nothing to do with stupid bro."
You just made my point there is a want of launch color
Cleaning lady or president? How someone employed by PCNA knows resale market? LOL
"By the way a stainless Daytona is not hard to get below MSRP in Europe"
Make me laugh hard. You don't know what you are talking about dude! Buy 10 of them, flip without any effort and the profits will net you a used GT car
"cars are not about rational thinking it’s a want nothing to do with stupid bro."
You just made my point there is a want of launch color
Last edited by Maverick787; 12-30-2020 at 09:41 PM.
12-31-2020, 01:00 AM
#910
Had a question about purchasing a used gt3 with manual trans . Has anyone had luck buying one used ? Or is this a car you would only purchase new ??
I bought a certified pre owned 991 turbo and had great luck with it , zero issues but wasn’t sure I’d have as good of luck with a used gt3 being that it’s a more race oriented car that is likely to have been driven hard .
I sold my Porsche turbo and went to a different brand but was considering another Porsche if it were a manual trans gt3 .
I bought a certified pre owned 991 turbo and had great luck with it , zero issues but wasn’t sure I’d have as good of luck with a used gt3 being that it’s a more race oriented car that is likely to have been driven hard .
I sold my Porsche turbo and went to a different brand but was considering another Porsche if it were a manual trans gt3 .
12-31-2020, 01:24 AM
#911
Rennlist Member
^^^ I certainly would not worry too much about "how hard someone else drove a GT3". They are very tough vehicles.
Certainly a thorough PPI is going to give you the BEST overall evaluation of the car,... but to help give you a more technical reponse....
A very important aspect of evaluating a manual GT3 is obtaining a recent DME report. There are a couple things you can learn from reading those reports. I will caveat here, that most of my knowledge is for 997 GT3's. So if there are subtle differences to 991 GT3 manuals, other guru's here can make those corrections....
The first check you can do, is an easy one. Divide the total number of engine operating hours into the total number of miles. That will give you an average speed. If the car has been tracked hard, you may see average speeds up above 40 mph. If it was driven gingerly on the street, you would see a average mph closer to 30 mph.
The next thing to look for is ignition over-revs. Within the 5 ranges Porsche allocates for over-revs, the ones in range 3, 4, & 5 can be the most devastating (you would prefer not to see any up in those ranges). Obviously a perfectly clean DME over-rev report is preferred, but sometimes a driver can downshift & miss the shift and not fully create the "Money Shift" requiring a full engine rebuild or replacement. Sometimes it can bounce off the upper limit (not necessarily the redline, for example a 997.2 GT3 has a redline of 8,400, but will not register a Range 1 ignition over-rev until it actually hits 9K). You did not mention whether you are looking for a 991.1 or a 991.2, and those engines have different redlines, and may have different range 1 thresholds (help me out here guys,... does anyone have the upper limit on the 4.0 991.2 engine for Range 1?)
Then to take it to the last area of critique you could apply to the DME, is to calculate how many actual seconds the engine spent in over-rev. To do that, lets give an example:
If the manual GT3 you are looking at, for example, has 88 over-rev ignitions in Range 1. To determine how much actual TIME that engine spent in the over-rev state, you can plug that 88 into this formula:
88 ignitions / 3 ignitions-per-revolution / 10,000 rev/min * 60 sec/min = 0.17 seconds
Thus, the answer on that example car, is that 88 range 1 ignitions meant that someone downshifted a gear, and the engine spent 0.17 seconds at the threshold before the driver caught himself & let off the gas. That would be an inconsequential amount of time. These Motorsport engines can handle that.
It also helps to determine how long ago the engine may have seen its last previous over-rev. Right next to the over-rev counter, you'll see a slash, and a engine-operating-hour from which the last over-rev occurred. I think Porsche has a threshold of something like 150 hours in the past - ie, if the last recorded over-rev was older than 150 hours ago, the engine is fine.
Probably much more than you wanted for your question,.... but it was at least fun for me to write it all out. Don't crucify me if I have a few details wrong in the above for 991 GT3's.
Certainly a thorough PPI is going to give you the BEST overall evaluation of the car,... but to help give you a more technical reponse....
A very important aspect of evaluating a manual GT3 is obtaining a recent DME report. There are a couple things you can learn from reading those reports. I will caveat here, that most of my knowledge is for 997 GT3's. So if there are subtle differences to 991 GT3 manuals, other guru's here can make those corrections....
The first check you can do, is an easy one. Divide the total number of engine operating hours into the total number of miles. That will give you an average speed. If the car has been tracked hard, you may see average speeds up above 40 mph. If it was driven gingerly on the street, you would see a average mph closer to 30 mph.
The next thing to look for is ignition over-revs. Within the 5 ranges Porsche allocates for over-revs, the ones in range 3, 4, & 5 can be the most devastating (you would prefer not to see any up in those ranges). Obviously a perfectly clean DME over-rev report is preferred, but sometimes a driver can downshift & miss the shift and not fully create the "Money Shift" requiring a full engine rebuild or replacement. Sometimes it can bounce off the upper limit (not necessarily the redline, for example a 997.2 GT3 has a redline of 8,400, but will not register a Range 1 ignition over-rev until it actually hits 9K). You did not mention whether you are looking for a 991.1 or a 991.2, and those engines have different redlines, and may have different range 1 thresholds (help me out here guys,... does anyone have the upper limit on the 4.0 991.2 engine for Range 1?)
Then to take it to the last area of critique you could apply to the DME, is to calculate how many actual seconds the engine spent in over-rev. To do that, lets give an example:
If the manual GT3 you are looking at, for example, has 88 over-rev ignitions in Range 1. To determine how much actual TIME that engine spent in the over-rev state, you can plug that 88 into this formula:
88 ignitions / 3 ignitions-per-revolution / 10,000 rev/min * 60 sec/min = 0.17 seconds
Thus, the answer on that example car, is that 88 range 1 ignitions meant that someone downshifted a gear, and the engine spent 0.17 seconds at the threshold before the driver caught himself & let off the gas. That would be an inconsequential amount of time. These Motorsport engines can handle that.
It also helps to determine how long ago the engine may have seen its last previous over-rev. Right next to the over-rev counter, you'll see a slash, and a engine-operating-hour from which the last over-rev occurred. I think Porsche has a threshold of something like 150 hours in the past - ie, if the last recorded over-rev was older than 150 hours ago, the engine is fine.
Probably much more than you wanted for your question,.... but it was at least fun for me to write it all out. Don't crucify me if I have a few details wrong in the above for 991 GT3's.
Last edited by bweSteve; 12-31-2020 at 01:27 AM.
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12-31-2020, 01:25 AM
#912
Rennlist Member
Had a question about purchasing a used gt3 with manual trans . Has anyone had luck buying one used ? Or is this a car you would only purchase new ??
I bought a certified pre owned 991 turbo and had great luck with it , zero issues but wasn’t sure I’d have as good of luck with a used gt3 being that it’s a more race oriented car that is likely to have been driven hard .
I sold my Porsche turbo and went to a different brand but was considering another Porsche if it were a manual trans gt3 .
I bought a certified pre owned 991 turbo and had great luck with it , zero issues but wasn’t sure I’d have as good of luck with a used gt3 being that it’s a more race oriented car that is likely to have been driven hard .
I sold my Porsche turbo and went to a different brand but was considering another Porsche if it were a manual trans gt3 .
If I need a new clutch at 15k miles then maybe I'd wonder about how hard it was driven for those first few miles, but hey, its a Porsche GT car, I'm not too worried. I expect the drivetrain, etc. would be reasonably durable for what I use it for.
Good luck, and go get one, you won't regret it!
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JohnnyF1ve (12-31-2020)
12-31-2020, 01:38 AM
#913
^^^ I certainly would not worry too much about "how hard someone else drove a GT3". They are very tough vehicles.
Certainly a thorough PPI is going to give you the BEST overall evaluation of the car,... but to help give you a more technical reponse....
A very important aspect of evaluating a manual GT3 is obtaining a recent DME report. There are a couple things you can learn from reading those reports. I will caveat here, that most of my knowledge is for 997 GT3's. So if there are subtle differences to 991 GT3 manuals, other guru's here can make those corrections....
The first check you can do, is an easy one. Divide the total number of engine operating hours into the total number of miles. That will give you an average speed. If the car has been tracked hard, you may see average speeds up above 40 mph. If it was driven gingerly on the street, you would see a average mph closer to 30 mph.
The next thing to look for is ignition over-revs. Within the 5 ranges Porsche allocates for over-revs, the ones in range 3, 4, & 5 can be the most devastating (you would prefer not to see any up in those ranges). Obviously a perfectly clean DME over-rev report is preferred, but sometimes a driver can downshift & miss the shift and not fully create the "Money Shift" requiring a full engine rebuild or replacement. Sometimes it can bounce off the upper limit (not necessarily the redline, for example a 997.2 GT3 has a redline of 8,400, but will not register a Range 1 ignition over-rev until it actually hits 9K). You did not mention whether you are looking for a 991.1 or a 991.2, and those engines have different redlines, and may have different range 1 thresholds (help me out here guys,... does anyone have the upper limit on the 4.0 991.2 engine for Range 1?)
Then to take it to the last area of critique you could apply to the DME, is to calculate how many actual seconds the engine spent in over-rev. To do that, lets give an example:
If the manual GT3 you are looking at, for example, has 88 over-rev ignitions in Range 1. To determine how much actual TIME that engine spent in the over-rev state, you can plug that 88 into this formula:
88 ignitions / 3 ignitions-per-revolution / 10,000 rev/min * 60 sec/min = 0.17 seconds
Thus, the answer on that example car, is that 88 range 1 ignitions meant that someone downshifted a gear, and the engine spent 0.17 seconds at the threshold before the driver caught himself & let off the gas. That would be an inconsequential amount of time. These Motorsport engines can handle that.
It also helps to determine how long ago the engine may have seen its last previous over-rev. Right next to the over-rev counter, you'll see a slash, and a engine-operating-hour from which the last over-rev occurred. I think Porsche has a threshold of something like 150 hours in the past - ie, if the last recorded over-rev was older than 150 hours ago, the engine is fine.
Probably much more than you wanted for your question,.... but it was at least fun for me to write it all out. Don't crucify me if I have a few details wrong in the above for 991 GT3's.
Certainly a thorough PPI is going to give you the BEST overall evaluation of the car,... but to help give you a more technical reponse....
A very important aspect of evaluating a manual GT3 is obtaining a recent DME report. There are a couple things you can learn from reading those reports. I will caveat here, that most of my knowledge is for 997 GT3's. So if there are subtle differences to 991 GT3 manuals, other guru's here can make those corrections....
The first check you can do, is an easy one. Divide the total number of engine operating hours into the total number of miles. That will give you an average speed. If the car has been tracked hard, you may see average speeds up above 40 mph. If it was driven gingerly on the street, you would see a average mph closer to 30 mph.
The next thing to look for is ignition over-revs. Within the 5 ranges Porsche allocates for over-revs, the ones in range 3, 4, & 5 can be the most devastating (you would prefer not to see any up in those ranges). Obviously a perfectly clean DME over-rev report is preferred, but sometimes a driver can downshift & miss the shift and not fully create the "Money Shift" requiring a full engine rebuild or replacement. Sometimes it can bounce off the upper limit (not necessarily the redline, for example a 997.2 GT3 has a redline of 8,400, but will not register a Range 1 ignition over-rev until it actually hits 9K). You did not mention whether you are looking for a 991.1 or a 991.2, and those engines have different redlines, and may have different range 1 thresholds (help me out here guys,... does anyone have the upper limit on the 4.0 991.2 engine for Range 1?)
Then to take it to the last area of critique you could apply to the DME, is to calculate how many actual seconds the engine spent in over-rev. To do that, lets give an example:
If the manual GT3 you are looking at, for example, has 88 over-rev ignitions in Range 1. To determine how much actual TIME that engine spent in the over-rev state, you can plug that 88 into this formula:
88 ignitions / 3 ignitions-per-revolution / 10,000 rev/min * 60 sec/min = 0.17 seconds
Thus, the answer on that example car, is that 88 range 1 ignitions meant that someone downshifted a gear, and the engine spent 0.17 seconds at the threshold before the driver caught himself & let off the gas. That would be an inconsequential amount of time. These Motorsport engines can handle that.
It also helps to determine how long ago the engine may have seen its last previous over-rev. Right next to the over-rev counter, you'll see a slash, and a engine-operating-hour from which the last over-rev occurred. I think Porsche has a threshold of something like 150 hours in the past - ie, if the last recorded over-rev was older than 150 hours ago, the engine is fine.
Probably much more than you wanted for your question,.... but it was at least fun for me to write it all out. Don't crucify me if I have a few details wrong in the above for 991 GT3's.
If I end up holding off id eventually consider a 992 gt3 once some used ones eventually hit the market down the road.
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JohnnyF1ve (12-31-2020)
12-31-2020, 01:43 AM
#914
I bought my manual GT3 with 1800 miles 7 months ago, before all the crazy lack of supply. It was CPO'd. Got a DME with a 2 in range 1, so essentially very limited use. No way of knowing for sure, but the overall condition of the car was consistent with what I imagine was an easy life, transmission included.
If I need a new clutch at 15k miles then maybe I'd wonder about how hard it was driven for those first few miles, but hey, its a Porsche GT car, I'm not too worried. I expect the drivetrain, etc. would be reasonably durable for what I use it for.
Good luck, and go get one, you won't regret it!
If I need a new clutch at 15k miles then maybe I'd wonder about how hard it was driven for those first few miles, but hey, its a Porsche GT car, I'm not too worried. I expect the drivetrain, etc. would be reasonably durable for what I use it for.
Good luck, and go get one, you won't regret it!
I think a manual gt3 will be a much more raw, engaging drive compared to my 991 turbo .
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JohnnyF1ve (12-31-2020)
12-31-2020, 01:52 AM
#915
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Had a question about purchasing a used gt3 with manual trans . Has anyone had luck buying one used ? Or is this a car you would only purchase new ??
I bought a certified pre owned 991 turbo and had great luck with it , zero issues but wasn’t sure I’d have as good of luck with a used gt3 being that it’s a more race oriented car that is likely to have been driven hard .
I sold my Porsche turbo and went to a different brand but was considering another Porsche if it were a manual trans gt3 .
I bought a certified pre owned 991 turbo and had great luck with it , zero issues but wasn’t sure I’d have as good of luck with a used gt3 being that it’s a more race oriented car that is likely to have been driven hard .
I sold my Porsche turbo and went to a different brand but was considering another Porsche if it were a manual trans gt3 .
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isellpower (01-04-2021)