991.2 GT3 RS to become a future classic ?
10-09-2019 | 12:39 PM
#136
Banned
Joined: Nov 2018
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-- First ever GT3 Touring
-- Not many of them
-- Better engine than 911R
-- Market for GT3 Touring has held better than any other 991 GT car
-- 992 Touring (if it's made) will be fatter, heavier and ugly, or at least not as pretty as the 991 Touring
-- 992 Touring (again, if it's made) will be produced in far greater numbers
These are just some factors off the top of my head. Just to be clear, I don't have a dog in the fight, as I'm not a Touring owner, though I hope to be some day. As for the 991 RS, they made a bazillion of them and it's PDK. If the 991 RS turns out to be a classic, that's great and I'll be genuinely happy for RS owners. But I just don't see it happening. I don't really care and not trying to upset anyone, just sharing my thoughts.
-- Not many of them
-- Better engine than 911R
-- Market for GT3 Touring has held better than any other 991 GT car
-- 992 Touring (if it's made) will be fatter, heavier and ugly, or at least not as pretty as the 991 Touring
-- 992 Touring (again, if it's made) will be produced in far greater numbers
These are just some factors off the top of my head. Just to be clear, I don't have a dog in the fight, as I'm not a Touring owner, though I hope to be some day. As for the 991 RS, they made a bazillion of them and it's PDK. If the 991 RS turns out to be a classic, that's great and I'll be genuinely happy for RS owners. But I just don't see it happening. I don't really care and not trying to upset anyone, just sharing my thoughts.
10-09-2019 | 01:52 PM
#137
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 430
In 30 years, all the cars will be electric, highly automated, and track your every move. Eventually, IC cars will only be common in lesser developed countries, and only with hobbyists / enthusiasts in the wealthier countries. These people will tend to be older and wealthier than average. The line between 993/997/991 will be blurred. It was all a slow evolution into that highly automated modern car of 2049.
The only real bright lines I can think of there was the last car with an MT, the last car without electronic nannies, the last NA car, and for Porsches, the last air cooled car.
993 important, 996 not so much so, 997 yes, 991 a step backward, but if last MT, may be important in 30 years. Probably not though. Who will be able to fix a PDK in 30 years? Hard to know. Bottom line, its all crystal ball now and nobody knows.
The only real bright lines I can think of there was the last car with an MT, the last car without electronic nannies, the last NA car, and for Porsches, the last air cooled car.
993 important, 996 not so much so, 997 yes, 991 a step backward, but if last MT, may be important in 30 years. Probably not though. Who will be able to fix a PDK in 30 years? Hard to know. Bottom line, its all crystal ball now and nobody knows.
10-09-2019 | 02:26 PM
#138
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,004
Likes: 1,041
From: ...PA...
Of the 991 gen, only the 911r...they made too many of those even, any of the other models...not even a chance. However, whichever the last gen NA gt3/rs will hold super super strong for a VERY long time, which is an awesome case scenario still!
10-09-2019 | 02:41 PM
#139
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 806
Likes: 219
The 992 Carrera S is heavier than the 991 Carrera S because it's longer, wider, and the 8 speed PDK box. Since the 991.2 Touring is already wider than the base car, the 992 Touring's body won't be much heavier, in fact as the 992 has more aluminum in the body construction, so it may weigh even less. And no weight gain w/ the same 6 speed trans either. Plus at least in the US, the exhaust will be lighter and with the ITB, I'm sure the 992 Touring will be a very formidable car when compared to a 991.2 Touring and this is from a .2 Touring owner. Looks aside as we won't know exactly how the 992 Touring will look.
Last edited by bli8; 10-09-2019 at 03:14 PM.
10-09-2019 | 08:02 PM
#140
Race Car
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,787
Likes: 1,045
-- First ever GT3 Touring
-- Not many of them
-- Better engine than 911R
-- Market for GT3 Touring has held better than any other 991 GT car
-- 992 Touring (if it's made) will be fatter, heavier and ugly, or at least not as pretty as the 991 Touring
-- 992 Touring (again, if it's made) will be produced in far greater numbers
These are just some factors off the top of my head. Just to be clear, I don't have a dog in the fight, as I'm not a Touring owner, though I hope to be some day. As for the 991 RS, they made a bazillion of them and it's PDK. If the 991 RS turns out to be a classic, that's great and I'll be genuinely happy for RS owners. But I just don't see it happening. I don't really care and not trying to upset anyone, just sharing my thoughts.
-- Not many of them
-- Better engine than 911R
-- Market for GT3 Touring has held better than any other 991 GT car
-- 992 Touring (if it's made) will be fatter, heavier and ugly, or at least not as pretty as the 991 Touring
-- 992 Touring (again, if it's made) will be produced in far greater numbers
These are just some factors off the top of my head. Just to be clear, I don't have a dog in the fight, as I'm not a Touring owner, though I hope to be some day. As for the 991 RS, they made a bazillion of them and it's PDK. If the 991 RS turns out to be a classic, that's great and I'll be genuinely happy for RS owners. But I just don't see it happening. I don't really care and not trying to upset anyone, just sharing my thoughts.
The RSs stand out throughout the Porsche line up as something special and the 991.2 is the most worked over NA RS ever produced.
It’s actually not clear to me why one would buy a GT3 - it’s in no mans land these days e.g. GTS or GT3RS or GT2RS. As a street car the GTS is a better proposition, certainly more flexible and as a performance car the RS is a significantly more dialled in and more focussed drive.
This makes the current GT3 a high volume price point car much like the 488 or 458 Italia . Hence hard to see any 991 GT3 being a classic. It just doesn’t have anything definitive or unique about it - still a great car but not unique.
Conversely the RSs are the defining GT products of their individual eras and they have got better and better with each evolution and by that I mean more and more involving as well as quicker. And this makes them very special in a world of ever more detached and one dimensional cars.
Who knows what will happen with the 992 - I’m not encouraged by what I have seen in regard to the 992 Carrera - competent but not outstanding and the mainstreaming of the 911 is starting to make it feel like a product, an every mans car.
The Audification of Porsche.
From an owner’s perspective the next and final Porsche I will buy will be the 718 GT4 RS - I suspect after that and with my current .2 GT3 RS I will done with Porsche based on their current direction.
Last edited by groundhog; 10-09-2019 at 08:34 PM.
10-09-2019 | 08:37 PM
#141
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 901
Likes: 663
The touring is a GT3 without a wing................they made about 15,000 GT3s...........the manual gearbox is based on the PDK and the PDK is a dual clutch manual.
The RSs stand out throughout the Porsche line up as something special and the 991.2 is the most worked over NA RS ever produced.
It’s actually not clear to me why one would buy a GT3 - it’s in no mans land these days e.g. GTS or GT3RS or GT2RS. As a street car the GTS is a better proposition, certainly more flexible and as a performance car the RS is a significantly more dialled in and more focussed drive.
This makes the current GT3 a high volume price point car much like the 488 or 458 Italia . Hence hard to see any 991 GT3 being a classic. It just doesn’t have anything definitive or unique about it - still a great car but not unique.
Conversely the RSs are the defining GT products of their individual eras and they have got better and better with each evolution and by that I mean more and more involving as well as quicker. And this makes them very special in a world of ever more detached and one dimensional cars.
Who knows what will happen with the 992 - I’m not encouraged by what I have seen in regard to the 992 Carrera - competent but not outstanding and the mainstreaming of the 911 is starting to make it feel like a product, an every mans car.
The Audification of Porsche.
From an owner’s perspective the next and final Porsche I will buy will be the 718 GT4 RS - I suspect after that and with my current .2 GT3 RS I will done with Porsche based on their current direction.
The RSs stand out throughout the Porsche line up as something special and the 991.2 is the most worked over NA RS ever produced.
It’s actually not clear to me why one would buy a GT3 - it’s in no mans land these days e.g. GTS or GT3RS or GT2RS. As a street car the GTS is a better proposition, certainly more flexible and as a performance car the RS is a significantly more dialled in and more focussed drive.
This makes the current GT3 a high volume price point car much like the 488 or 458 Italia . Hence hard to see any 991 GT3 being a classic. It just doesn’t have anything definitive or unique about it - still a great car but not unique.
Conversely the RSs are the defining GT products of their individual eras and they have got better and better with each evolution and by that I mean more and more involving as well as quicker. And this makes them very special in a world of ever more detached and one dimensional cars.
Who knows what will happen with the 992 - I’m not encouraged by what I have seen in regard to the 992 Carrera - competent but not outstanding and the mainstreaming of the 911 is starting to make it feel like a product, an every mans car.
The Audification of Porsche.
From an owner’s perspective the next and final Porsche I will buy will be the 718 GT4 RS - I suspect after that and with my current .2 GT3 RS I will done with Porsche based on their current direction.
On that basis I'm going to agree with you only because I have .2 RS - lol.
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Howydo (10-10-2019)
10-09-2019 | 08:47 PM
#142
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10-09-2019 | 10:06 PM
#143
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10-09-2019 | 10:21 PM
#146
Pro
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 720
Likes: 71
The touring is a GT3 without a wing................they made about 15,000 GT3s...........the manual gearbox is based on the PDK and the PDK is a dual clutch manual.
The RSs stand out throughout the Porsche line up as something special and the 991.2 is the most worked over NA RS ever produced.
It’s actually not clear to me why one would buy a GT3 - it’s in no mans land these days e.g. GTS or GT3RS or GT2RS. As a street car the GTS is a better proposition, certainly more flexible and as a performance car the RS is a significantly more dialled in and more focussed drive.
This makes the current GT3 a high volume price point car much like the 488 or 458 Italia . Hence hard to see any 991 GT3 being a classic. It just doesn’t have anything definitive or unique about it - still a great car but not unique.
Conversely the RSs are the defining GT products of their individual eras and they have got better and better with each evolution and by that I mean more and more involving as well as quicker. And this makes them very special in a world of ever more detached and one dimensional cars.
Who knows what will happen with the 992 - I’m not encouraged by what I have seen in regard to the 992 Carrera - competent but not outstanding and the mainstreaming of the 911 is starting to make it feel like a product, an every mans car.
The Audification of Porsche.
From an owner’s perspective the next and final Porsche I will buy will be the 718 GT4 RS - I suspect after that and with my current .2 GT3 RS I will done with Porsche based on their current direction.
The RSs stand out throughout the Porsche line up as something special and the 991.2 is the most worked over NA RS ever produced.
It’s actually not clear to me why one would buy a GT3 - it’s in no mans land these days e.g. GTS or GT3RS or GT2RS. As a street car the GTS is a better proposition, certainly more flexible and as a performance car the RS is a significantly more dialled in and more focussed drive.
This makes the current GT3 a high volume price point car much like the 488 or 458 Italia . Hence hard to see any 991 GT3 being a classic. It just doesn’t have anything definitive or unique about it - still a great car but not unique.
Conversely the RSs are the defining GT products of their individual eras and they have got better and better with each evolution and by that I mean more and more involving as well as quicker. And this makes them very special in a world of ever more detached and one dimensional cars.
Who knows what will happen with the 992 - I’m not encouraged by what I have seen in regard to the 992 Carrera - competent but not outstanding and the mainstreaming of the 911 is starting to make it feel like a product, an every mans car.
The Audification of Porsche.
From an owner’s perspective the next and final Porsche I will buy will be the 718 GT4 RS - I suspect after that and with my current .2 GT3 RS I will done with Porsche based on their current direction.
10-09-2019 | 11:04 PM
#147
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,486
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From: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
Brilliant, and I have to agree with you regarding the base GT3 as it didn’t make sense to me either. I bought a new RS instead. I’ll buy a 911R or speedster in the future if I want a manual 911 (although it will likely be a three pedal Ferrari next). I wouldn’t buy a base GT3 whether it has the optional touring pack or not. They built well over 5,000 991 GT3’s for NA alone and it looks like any other 991 Carrera of which they built 200,000+ WW. The RS is a totally different beast both mechanically and visually, as is the speedster.
it s not a totally different car
much difference is made to have or not 3 pedals
which RS has not...
10-09-2019 | 11:50 PM
#148
Pro
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Posts: 720
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Last edited by Dot23RS; 10-10-2019 at 12:25 AM.
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Howydo (10-10-2019)
10-10-2019 | 12:49 AM
#149
Race Car
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,787
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Its very, very different - let me see, NACA ducts (for aero and brake cooling), completely different front end and track - carbon fibre fenders, carbon fibre frunk, magnesium roof, fully rose jointed suspension, totally different spring and damping rates, totally different ARBs, lower final drive ratio, different intakes, more power, more torque, turbo rear, 21 inch rear, 325s etc etc. Whereas the GT3T is a base GT3 minus the wing and thats it. Nothing wrong with a GT3 but its still very different to an RS.
