Buying a GT2 RS: My Unfortunate Dealings with Porsche of the Main Line
10-08-2017, 10:34 AM
#226
Drifting
You are correct - F1 V10 roadster manual insane build materials bespoke host of patents dedicated to the CGT.
Hard to let go - 3RS is a special car too 18w seats are excellent Speciale gets driven more often but it's also 2x the price which is where the RS shines unreal car for the price.
10-08-2017, 10:37 AM
#227
Platinum Dealership
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Ferrari is taking production from 7,000 annual to 10,000 annual- that is the main reason why you guys can get cars now. No longer is the company a demand minus one.
Porsche is currently in demand minus one for GT, or maybe even minus 20-30%.
Mclaren for the P15 and BP23 is currently overall demand minus 50% = actual builds.
Lambo is “ build as we go “ and that’s why I want a lambo dealership. Guys drive their cars and lambo builds cars to drive that are a lot more reliable than they used to be (over a decade of Audi)
Porsche is currently in demand minus one for GT, or maybe even minus 20-30%.
Mclaren for the P15 and BP23 is currently overall demand minus 50% = actual builds.
Lambo is “ build as we go “ and that’s why I want a lambo dealership. Guys drive their cars and lambo builds cars to drive that are a lot more reliable than they used to be (over a decade of Audi)
10-08-2017, 10:41 AM
#228
Rennlist Member
You are correct - F1 V10 roadster manual insane build materials bespoke host of patents dedicated to the CGT.
Hard to let go - 3RS is a special car too 18w seats are excellent Speciale gets driven more often but it's also 2x the price which is where the RS shines unreal car for the price.
Hard to let go - 3RS is a special car too 18w seats are excellent Speciale gets driven more often but it's also 2x the price which is where the RS shines unreal car for the price.
10-08-2017, 11:14 AM
#229
Race Director
And you wonder why dealers are playing the game too when they have guys like this in line to buy cars. Do you blame them sometimes??
How many of these threads have we seen?? How many of these guys are out there that never post?? PLENTY
“Finders fee” Really??
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...1-2-gt3-7.html
How many of these threads have we seen?? How many of these guys are out there that never post?? PLENTY
“Finders fee” Really??
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...1-2-gt3-7.html
10-08-2017, 11:36 AM
#230
Intermediate
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA 94110
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Your story here is unbelievable.Anyway, thanks for sharing here, at least we will be aware of this issue. Hoping that you can manage this situation. I think you will need legal consultation to your lawyer.
10-08-2017, 01:09 PM
#231
Putting a dealership in the "good" or "bad" bucket assumes the people with whom they dealt never change. Bad assumption: The biggest challenge for dealerships is to recruit and RETAIN good people. It's a revolving door, making "Shermanesque" statements about a particular dealership a bit unfair.
Having said that, I'm a big proponent of "under-promise, over-deliver." The OP's experience falls well short of that, and I hope everyone comes out of their corner and gets something resolved. The length of this thread suggest it's past due.
Having said that, I'm a big proponent of "under-promise, over-deliver." The OP's experience falls well short of that, and I hope everyone comes out of their corner and gets something resolved. The length of this thread suggest it's past due.
10-08-2017, 01:45 PM
#232
All you have is what everybody else has: the OP's side of the story.
That alone seems to be enough, for some, to justify impugning the integrity of the dealership.That picture looks awfully one sided.
And, since you brought up the law, I seem to recall in front of some courthouses, there is a statue of a blindfolded woman holding a scale. The scale has two sides for a reason.
10-08-2017, 01:52 PM
#233
Once you leave Porsche you realize how much crap you have been dealing with. Irony for me is as a new potential customer to Ferrari I can get a 488 GTB in the Spring, 488 Spider in 12 months and a 812 in 24 to 30 months. No games - just need to place my deposit and wait. Going in Monday to test drive a 488, 488 Spider and F12 to decide which way to go.
10-08-2017, 01:57 PM
#234
Dealers can sell to anyone in a territory that there is no dealer.
Being in St Louis all F dealers can sell me. For warranty & service they offer a territory from Dallas Chicago Detroit Atlanta pick up and delivery for free.
Being the local FCA President - the dealer sponsors track days in our area brings in test dive cars all no charge. Ferrari is struggling with the 488 but the dealers receive 50+ car a year so it's a whole different experience.
They have a point system age wealth Tifosi track schools how many F cars the guys who race in the Challenge series get whatever they want. In order to get sought after allocations they send applicants to FNA and apply the point system. Ferrari is a life style for most owners F1 is as good as it gets.
If it were not for RL I would not own a Porsche - the dealers and Porsche itself are of little interest. After trying to work with the local Porsche it's useless which is why my RS is for sale and CGT most likely next.
Ferrari's don't break any more than any other car - all Lamborghini's owners aren't posers you guys need to get out more
I am not going to beg Porsche no offense but IMO they aren't that special to warrant the brain damage to buy one. CJ taking over the Chicago dealer makes Mclaren appealing again he's the kind of guy car people want to do business with vs the guys who make buying miserable.
Being in St Louis all F dealers can sell me. For warranty & service they offer a territory from Dallas Chicago Detroit Atlanta pick up and delivery for free.
Being the local FCA President - the dealer sponsors track days in our area brings in test dive cars all no charge. Ferrari is struggling with the 488 but the dealers receive 50+ car a year so it's a whole different experience.
They have a point system age wealth Tifosi track schools how many F cars the guys who race in the Challenge series get whatever they want. In order to get sought after allocations they send applicants to FNA and apply the point system. Ferrari is a life style for most owners F1 is as good as it gets.
If it were not for RL I would not own a Porsche - the dealers and Porsche itself are of little interest. After trying to work with the local Porsche it's useless which is why my RS is for sale and CGT most likely next.
Ferrari's don't break any more than any other car - all Lamborghini's owners aren't posers you guys need to get out more
I am not going to beg Porsche no offense but IMO they aren't that special to warrant the brain damage to buy one. CJ taking over the Chicago dealer makes Mclaren appealing again he's the kind of guy car people want to do business with vs the guys who make buying miserable.Ferrari's definitely don't break anymore. On my fourth in 3 years and no issues and love the free maintenance. I have a local dealer and bought new Ferrari's from dealers outside my area. Don't know how much Ferrari cares about territory as I've had no issues. Actually bought all of mine from out of state, 2 new and 2 used. I do go to my local one for service. I don't really care about building my points up as I don't think I'll ever get to the tdf/la ferrari level. I do want to pick up a speciale at some point.
Back to the OP, tell them to give you $125k cash and your deposit back for your #1 spot and move on to another car.
10-08-2017, 02:02 PM
#235
Banned
Thanks to the OP for positing his experience with Main Line and to the comments from RL members. I'm new to Porsche entering the 'family' when I acquired a 2015 GTS Cab. I am about to embark on seeking an allocation for either a late build 991 GT3.2 or 992/992.2 GT3 and this thread has changed the way I would have confirmed my spot with a dealer.
I think the problem here is that buyers WANT to believe they have a special relationship with their dealers. They WANT a, man to man, handshake type of an agreement that confirms you are getting the allocation when it arrives.
Seems like now you need several things in writing to protect yourself from being screwed. And even then there are certainly going to be enough loopholes in a "home grown" contract that make a guarantee next to impossible to achieve.
Look at the dealers comments in the OPs contract. If I'm in his shoes, when these terms were delivered, it would be hard to say, "thank you, but the terms are not clear enough, I need more detail written - on the price we discussed at MSRP, Remove subject to availability. List out trade in as being part of the purchase" etc. Most on here would want to believe that the dealer would act in good faith with what was provided.
BUT it is clear there is an unethical way of how some dealers approach the GT market we live in. It would be nice if one of the attorneys on here wrote up a simple template contract for these early agreements to get GT Car allocations so we decrease the chances of this happening. We see how flimsily, vague terms within these dealer contracts won't protect the buyer. In fact they are most certainly written to allow for the dealer to do whatever they want. Even charge a 250k ADM!
It should be a simple one pager that includes sections for deposit amount, Trade in - pre sale or when car arrives (if any). Pricing at Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. Delivery timeline - what's the window? What car is it for (specifically). Model year etc.
Of course when you become a difficult buyer by asking for terms you run the risk of pissing off the seller who may go straight to the next buyer who wants to do the handshake deal. But at least there would be a more solid document both parties could sign if willing.
This is a long shot but any attorneys want to help the RL community with a GT contract template? Prob not but it's worth the ask.
I think the problem here is that buyers WANT to believe they have a special relationship with their dealers. They WANT a, man to man, handshake type of an agreement that confirms you are getting the allocation when it arrives.
Seems like now you need several things in writing to protect yourself from being screwed. And even then there are certainly going to be enough loopholes in a "home grown" contract that make a guarantee next to impossible to achieve.
Look at the dealers comments in the OPs contract. If I'm in his shoes, when these terms were delivered, it would be hard to say, "thank you, but the terms are not clear enough, I need more detail written - on the price we discussed at MSRP, Remove subject to availability. List out trade in as being part of the purchase" etc. Most on here would want to believe that the dealer would act in good faith with what was provided.
BUT it is clear there is an unethical way of how some dealers approach the GT market we live in. It would be nice if one of the attorneys on here wrote up a simple template contract for these early agreements to get GT Car allocations so we decrease the chances of this happening. We see how flimsily, vague terms within these dealer contracts won't protect the buyer. In fact they are most certainly written to allow for the dealer to do whatever they want. Even charge a 250k ADM!
It should be a simple one pager that includes sections for deposit amount, Trade in - pre sale or when car arrives (if any). Pricing at Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. Delivery timeline - what's the window? What car is it for (specifically). Model year etc.
Of course when you become a difficult buyer by asking for terms you run the risk of pissing off the seller who may go straight to the next buyer who wants to do the handshake deal. But at least there would be a more solid document both parties could sign if willing.
This is a long shot but any attorneys want to help the RL community with a GT contract template? Prob not but it's worth the ask.
10-08-2017, 02:03 PM
#236
Rennlist Member
Ferrari is taking production from 7,000 annual to 10,000 annual- that is the main reason why you guys can get cars now. No longer is the company a demand minus one.
Porsche is currently in demand minus one for GT, or maybe even minus 20-30%.
Mclaren for the P15 and BP23 is currently overall demand minus 50% = actual builds.
Lambo is €œ build as we go €œ and that€™s why I want a lambo dealership. Guys drive their cars and lambo builds cars to drive that are a lot more reliable than they used to be (over a decade of Audi)
Porsche is currently in demand minus one for GT, or maybe even minus 20-30%.
Mclaren for the P15 and BP23 is currently overall demand minus 50% = actual builds.
Lambo is €œ build as we go €œ and that€™s why I want a lambo dealership. Guys drive their cars and lambo builds cars to drive that are a lot more reliable than they used to be (over a decade of Audi)
Appreciate your broader perspective on the various brands as many of us focus so much on Porsche.
Any thoughts on why Mclaren is building so few of the p19/ bp23?
What is mclaren building vs demand for the 720? 720LT?
Last edited by Drifting; 10-08-2017 at 08:38 PM.
10-08-2017, 02:30 PM
#238
Rennlist Member
This call option (on the market price of a gt2rs) is what, in fact, the OP expected to have received through this contract in return for his fully refundable deposit of few $k and his lost interest on the $100k sitting at the dealer. Judging from the market prices for the gt2rs floating around, it looks like this call option is worth at least $100k today.
Given the asymmetrical upside/downside -- where the OP gets all the potential upside with almost zero risk (zero downside; zero skin in the game) -- could it be that the dealer was the gullible and unsophisticated party in this contract?
Are the "good" dealers the ones that give away these (sometimes very valuable) long-term call options for free? Are the "bad" dealers the ones that don't give them out at all and simply ask market prices (the highest bid) for their cars on the day of the sale (be they below or above MSRP)? Is a "good" customer the one that demands to be given these valuable long-term call options from many dealers and on many future models for free (i.e. for a refundable $1k deposit each)?
Last edited by hf1; 10-08-2017 at 02:53 PM.
10-08-2017, 03:02 PM
#239
I can't believe anyone is. Dealership shook the OP of his goods and now hanging him over a barrel, of acid, using the trust he showed them to their full advantage...they opened with +$250k for fuhk's sake, dealership is in a great position. I bet they "apologize" with a $100k compromise. Lol
10-08-2017, 03:55 PM
#240
