968 Supercharger Kit Development
10-21-2009, 05:39 PM
#361
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i did it for a 944 with no intercooler and got 221 HP with just 5psi boost:
Existing horsepower:
165 flywheel HP
Planned level of boost:
5
Planned fuel octane rating:
92
Intercooler / Aftercooler
None
Estimated Results:
HP Loss due to timing adjustment: 0
Est. flywheel HP with supercharger: 221.1
Est. rear wheel HP with supercharger: 176.88
Total HP Gain: 56.1 flywheel HP
Percentage Gain: 34 %
165 flywheel HP
Planned level of boost:
5
Planned fuel octane rating:
92
Intercooler / Aftercooler
None
Estimated Results:
HP Loss due to timing adjustment: 0
Est. flywheel HP with supercharger: 221.1
Est. rear wheel HP with supercharger: 176.88
Total HP Gain: 56.1 flywheel HP
Percentage Gain: 34 %
10-21-2009, 06:16 PM
#362
Instructor
lots of misinformation in here.....a 4 valve/cylinder motor should see better results due to flow. it's not just the boost pressure, but the ability to FLOW more air to fuel, thus creating more power. that calculator is very vague.
also, as was stated, if you want more boost you don't necessarily have to add/use an inter-cooler; even with high compression. I run 10.5:1 on 91 octane an with the correct fueling, timing and knock retard I have more than doubled my engine's orig output. if you use an inter-cooler to lower intake charge, you will also have to deal with reduced flow and pressure drop..which also affect throttle response. the issue you have as you raise boost is belt slip and added tension/wear on the items run off of the belt.
I am sure Carl can and will provide higher boost/power kits as the needs arise. I for one, once I have the kit will be more than willing to help Carl with this, as I have worked closely with other S/C kit manufactures for the past 7 years, so I know what to expect and how to accurately document system performance.
anyways.....we could spend pages discussing this, which I am sure we will....ONCE we get these kits into our cars.
:P
also, as was stated, if you want more boost you don't necessarily have to add/use an inter-cooler; even with high compression. I run 10.5:1 on 91 octane an with the correct fueling, timing and knock retard I have more than doubled my engine's orig output. if you use an inter-cooler to lower intake charge, you will also have to deal with reduced flow and pressure drop..which also affect throttle response. the issue you have as you raise boost is belt slip and added tension/wear on the items run off of the belt.
I am sure Carl can and will provide higher boost/power kits as the needs arise. I for one, once I have the kit will be more than willing to help Carl with this, as I have worked closely with other S/C kit manufactures for the past 7 years, so I know what to expect and how to accurately document system performance.
anyways.....we could spend pages discussing this, which I am sure we will....ONCE we get these kits into our cars.
:P
10-21-2009, 06:29 PM
#363
Rennlist Member
.
10-26-2009, 11:46 AM
#364
Developer
Thread Starter
One of the items that seems to have floated to the surface on our kit is mild disappointment that the kit doesnot make 300 CHP or more.
I did not react to it - I hate arbitrary numbers - but this kit has been so close... making 292 to 294 HP each time.
I am going to take the 968SC into the shop and twekk the lkit, take about .5mm out of the pulley, and we replaced the MAF sensor on this test mule because it was iffy.
I will take it back to the dyno and get the 300 HP number that so many have wished.
I did not react to it - I hate arbitrary numbers - but this kit has been so close... making 292 to 294 HP each time.
I am going to take the 968SC into the shop and twekk the lkit, take about .5mm out of the pulley, and we replaced the MAF sensor on this test mule because it was iffy.
I will take it back to the dyno and get the 300 HP number that so many have wished.
10-27-2009, 03:35 PM
#366
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Fine Work Carl,
The 968 debuted during a very similar economic downturn as this current slide. But you're already making the 968 more relevant in the Porsche family...
Guys are going to buy your superchargers. The ponies are right there, and maybe, a few more... and the cost of this upgrade is fair $$$-wise, because it shows what can be done to this incredible automobile without completely breaking the bank.
We are talking about supercharging a Porsche... Hell yeahhhhh !! I'll bet that more than a few of us are a bit embarrased by all the agonizing that has gone on, as to what the final hp gains may eventually work out to be.
It becomes obvious that you are falling victim to our methodical approach... Most of us tune and upgrade the 944/968 cars for more performance in other areas before moving toward the engine bay in search of dirty, filthy SPEED... Many of us are temporarily backlogged with a lot of stuff related in this area.
I spent about 14,000 dollars upgrading my 968 [some maint. thrown in too]. But, even after adding huge brakes and proper suspension maint., I'm still not done. Front-end body work is underway... [I was building a 968/996-hybrid front bumper and splitter, when I discovered your supercharger project about 3 months ago]. Wished I hadn't begun the body work, cuz my 968 would be one of the earlier cars with your kit.
All of us here make very informed decisions [if to a fault] and THEN, fork over the $$$... I am embarrassed that I have not yet purchased your supercharger... I will be one of those who prove that all of your work was not done in vain.
I recently had my exhaust made with one consideration --- your supercharger.
Have you guys ever held a 968 cat in your hands ? Don't believe everything you hear... What a pile of JUNK !... ummm, let's just say that mine's gone for now.
The exhaust that came off [after the header] is built for World War THREE. It weighed about 125 pounds. The new one that went on is maybe 40 pounds... The goal was something light that will flow.
My new exhaust is straight 2 1/2 inch pipe with two mild bends into a 3 inch Hooker Maxflow muffler w/ 3" to 4" tip... This muffler has the highest flow characteristics of any mufflers tested that are still streetable, but costing hundreds of dollars less than a Borla...
It's extremely well built, and at idle/normal acceleration the sound is amazing... But when you really step on it, the variocam runs the way nature intended... acceleration from 70 to 100 mph is ridiculous.
characteristics similar to an optimized [bypass] system will be observed... As Jeremy would say, "the results are astonishing..." and the numbers are confirmed in tests... In the first link you'll see that the Maxflow muffler is sending the same amount of gas as straight pipe... 521 cfm...
http://www.broaderperformance.com/mu...flow_tests.htm
here's another link, the Maxflow and the Borla are the clear winners, though the Maxflow is louder at WOT.
http://www.carforums.net/showthread.php?t=51203
I am not suggesting you all run straight, 2 1/2 inch pipe through what amounts to a large, glorified glasspack, as I have done... but my set-up is making at least an additional 20-30 hp [w/ the K & N filter]...
The photo I added is a 4" Maxflow. the large inlet/outer diameter makes the muffler look very small. The muffler is bigger than the photo indicates.
I am willing to bet that this type of exhaust will make the supercharger work better than the 67 hp that Carl got. just my .02 + foot firmly planted in mouth.
/
The 968 debuted during a very similar economic downturn as this current slide. But you're already making the 968 more relevant in the Porsche family...
Guys are going to buy your superchargers. The ponies are right there, and maybe, a few more... and the cost of this upgrade is fair $$$-wise, because it shows what can be done to this incredible automobile without completely breaking the bank.
We are talking about supercharging a Porsche... Hell yeahhhhh !! I'll bet that more than a few of us are a bit embarrased by all the agonizing that has gone on, as to what the final hp gains may eventually work out to be.
It becomes obvious that you are falling victim to our methodical approach... Most of us tune and upgrade the 944/968 cars for more performance in other areas before moving toward the engine bay in search of dirty, filthy SPEED... Many of us are temporarily backlogged with a lot of stuff related in this area.
I spent about 14,000 dollars upgrading my 968 [some maint. thrown in too]. But, even after adding huge brakes and proper suspension maint., I'm still not done. Front-end body work is underway... [I was building a 968/996-hybrid front bumper and splitter, when I discovered your supercharger project about 3 months ago]. Wished I hadn't begun the body work, cuz my 968 would be one of the earlier cars with your kit.
All of us here make very informed decisions [if to a fault] and THEN, fork over the $$$... I am embarrassed that I have not yet purchased your supercharger... I will be one of those who prove that all of your work was not done in vain.
I recently had my exhaust made with one consideration --- your supercharger.
Have you guys ever held a 968 cat in your hands ? Don't believe everything you hear... What a pile of JUNK !... ummm, let's just say that mine's gone for now.
The exhaust that came off [after the header] is built for World War THREE. It weighed about 125 pounds. The new one that went on is maybe 40 pounds... The goal was something light that will flow.
My new exhaust is straight 2 1/2 inch pipe with two mild bends into a 3 inch Hooker Maxflow muffler w/ 3" to 4" tip... This muffler has the highest flow characteristics of any mufflers tested that are still streetable, but costing hundreds of dollars less than a Borla...
It's extremely well built, and at idle/normal acceleration the sound is amazing... But when you really step on it, the variocam runs the way nature intended... acceleration from 70 to 100 mph is ridiculous.
characteristics similar to an optimized [bypass] system will be observed... As Jeremy would say, "the results are astonishing..." and the numbers are confirmed in tests... In the first link you'll see that the Maxflow muffler is sending the same amount of gas as straight pipe... 521 cfm...
http://www.broaderperformance.com/mu...flow_tests.htm
here's another link, the Maxflow and the Borla are the clear winners, though the Maxflow is louder at WOT.
http://www.carforums.net/showthread.php?t=51203
I am not suggesting you all run straight, 2 1/2 inch pipe through what amounts to a large, glorified glasspack, as I have done... but my set-up is making at least an additional 20-30 hp [w/ the K & N filter]...
The photo I added is a 4" Maxflow. the large inlet/outer diameter makes the muffler look very small. The muffler is bigger than the photo indicates.
I am willing to bet that this type of exhaust will make the supercharger work better than the 67 hp that Carl got. just my .02 + foot firmly planted in mouth.
/
Last edited by odurandina; 04-14-2012 at 10:24 AM.
11-13-2009, 06:12 PM
#367
Developer
Thread Starter
For those that asked for 300 HP
We found that one of the problems was the OEM injectors themselves. They are an old design, and they do not cycle very quickly.
We replaced them with new Bosch injectors of the Gen 3 design, and got much better fueling without really going much larger.
That, and a little more boost, and we safely brought in 327 HP on this car. This 968 still has the stock exhaust and cat installed. Stock chipset too.
In the second picture, note that nice flat air/fuel line... good tune!
We replaced them with new Bosch injectors of the Gen 3 design, and got much better fueling without really going much larger.
That, and a little more boost, and we safely brought in 327 HP on this car. This 968 still has the stock exhaust and cat installed. Stock chipset too.
In the second picture, note that nice flat air/fuel line... good tune!
11-15-2009, 01:05 PM
#372
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I was thinking the same thing !
11-15-2009, 07:48 PM
#373
I'm also curious about the injectors.
I think I'll be buying a kit first half of next year, and so I'd be curious about the part number and cost of the injectors, whether Carl will be offering them, would they help regularly aspirated car, etc.
If they do help a normally aspirated car I might make that mod first just to spread the costs and time around.
Good Stuff!
Phil
I think I'll be buying a kit first half of next year, and so I'd be curious about the part number and cost of the injectors, whether Carl will be offering them, would they help regularly aspirated car, etc.
If they do help a normally aspirated car I might make that mod first just to spread the costs and time around.
Good Stuff!
Phil
