cobalt

I wish I knew you were there. I passed on the hanger although they were pushing tickets for a reduced rate advanced purchase. I'm glad I did as the rain storm was insane that night. Seems Jeffrey is losing attendance as well at the Bridge as I keep getting requests for submittal. When we took the Amelia award in 2018 with the Red Lobster 83G and other friends Lake showing his well known 356 speedster and Dan showing his 1st place Lowenbrau #14 962 I don't think it could have gotten better. Bill did a great job and the lineup of cars to me was second to none. Even last year had a nice field of unique cars but not like years before. I have no doubt the field was empty due to some rain. But that wasn't what did it in for me. Last year was a decent showing but had its issues. This year was just not worth attending. I miss the lanyards as I collect them from all the shows. The new Amelia Award is horrible and the old Lalique ornament was a beautiful piece to display. They corral you to one side as I preferred to do the brass era cars first as I usually can find parts I helped make for some of them. But they did away with all that. I also enjoyed dinning at the Omni but now you have to be a guest of the hotel. What I don't understand is the need to corral all the cars so closely together. There was an entire half of the fairway that was empty and what was there was too closely crammed on top of each other making it hard to see anything.

Hagerty is buying up everything and monetizing it. BTW some of the cars at Broad arrow I watched had serious mechanical issues and did not sell. She does a great job motivating the buyers but I would never sell a car there.

To me simple things like this was what made the show worth attending. Not me in the picture.

RapidGT

Broad Arrow looks to have a ways to go to get on par with RM or Gooding. Haven’t bought or sold anything through them, but the venue and particularly their offerings are below some of their competitors. They don’t sell the same caliber of cars as these other auction houses and some of their cars are far from “collector grade”. A couple examples were a 2010 GT3 and 1992 964 RS that Broad Arrow had that I don’t think RM or Gooding would represent as they were rough and unappealing. Both were well sold considering the issues they had.

RapidGT

This Guards Red/black 3.6 is on BaT. Shows 23k miles.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-turbo-3-6-14/

cobalt

On the surface a nice looking example. Only thing I could find wrong were the crested caps are from a 993 and not 964 but close enough and the muffler has been deleted. It will be interesting to see what it brings.

peterpullin

are you sure about that caps? there is a xd4 code for non flat caps from factory.
just a thought….

cobalt

Yes they are correct but should have gold Porsche lettering Vs black

Brian4lev

I have the crested OEM caps on my 3.6 turbo as well from factory. Close to 400k with 10 days to go is a nice indicator of a continued uptick of the 964 turbo market.

RapidGT

Think the red car on BaT was asking $500k prior to the start of the auction.

cobalt

Mine was optioned with them as well and is very close to the build date of the red car. My 928GTS has them as well. They changed the caps from Gold lettering to black lettering in 1995. Could this be an anomaly? Very possibly but it seems too early build date to be. These are quite rare and very few in this condition that haven't been refurbished so we will see if it comes close to the black one that sold for nearly $600k a few weeks ago. The only other real issue are the rear speakers but that can be remedied.

Still having a hard time for them to accept my posts. Irrespective of the content.

WSH

I realize this is a 964 Turbo thread, but since Amelia was brought up.....

I've attended Amelia for 13 years, and live here full time now
I agree with most of the thoughts above, and gave Hagerty some "constructive criticism" in my post event review
The charm, the awards, alignment of cars on field etc def need attention

But...

To claim it is on the decline just isn't true
Attendance this year was a RECORD 27k, up from 25k PY...my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Moda-Miami had 8k attendees in year one
Saturday--despite the ridiculous cost now--was jammed, both C&C & Radwood
Auctions performed strongly, and while I agree Broad Arrow has a ways to go to meet the Gooding/Charlie Ross gold standard, they did much better

FYI, numbers I have seen for this years auctions (PY in parentheses)
Gooding -Amelia $67.5M ($72M)
Broad Arrow-Amelia $63M ($31M)
RM-Miami $50M ($70M PY in Amelia)

And as far as the greed/expense ? How much were the Moda Miami events ?

As I put on another board, if everyone" stays in their lane", should be room for both
Moda-Miami more "lifestyle" / influencer crowd, focus on lifestyle events and modern supercars (and what a market for that !), RM Auctions (Rob Myers certainly know how to run a quality auction)
Amelia- Classic concours & competition cars, Werks Reunion, C&C, Gooding-Bonhams-BA auctions etc
The challenge for Moda will be going forward, years 2 & 3 are always tough (anyone remember the "Atlanta Concours" @ Chateau Elan ?)

One thing I did notice about Amelia this year: no Corporate on field presence (Mercedes, Porsche, Corvette, etc) as in previous years
Don't know if this was intentional or not; there was always a LOT of concern during the Bill Warner/Charity days about it becoming too commercialized.

Anyway, back to Turbos...

cobalt

Correct me if I am mistaken. I had a lengthy conversation with a local resident who has been directly involved with the event for many years. To say the least she was quite displeased. My understanding is pre sales were way down and they combined both C&C and Concours numbers. So many of us were counted twice. What I saw seems to confirm that, no way the crowd was larger than last year Sunday. Previous years no attendance was taken for the C&C. So the numbers might be skewed. She also was irate over the proceeds not being distributed to the charities at the same level as before. Not sure if that is true or not.

I have been attending for 7 years and I cannot believe that the attendance Sunday was remotely close to prior years. The quality of the few cars there good but quantity was seriously lacking. I received numerous emails asking me to submit a car unlike prior years, so I am assuming they needed to fill the field. I usually know 30-50 people who attend many have shown some serious multi million dollar cars there for years. After what they went through last year they all went down to Miami. Road Scholar's who brought several 959's last year was at Moda and many others. IMO Werks was far more interesting and they did a better job despite similar weather conditions. I will happily attend again but after the past 2 years since Hagerty took over I found Sunday to be lacking. It lost its charm. The event as I saw it has become a cash cow.

I have no issue spending good money for a good time. I spent quite a bit for a few days and the area is always wonderful. I was considering buying a place down there. As a veteran of the show IMO they took the fun out of it for cash. Every veteran show goer I spoke to had the same sentiment without me prompting it. The days of chicken sandwiches freshly cooked and assorted refreshments and a variety of foods to chose from have gone way to a sandwich not worthy of the English Underground. Limited choices both food and vendors and I really miss eating at the Omni and relaxing. IMO they took the elegance out of the Concours and it is now just another car show. Those I know who switched to Moda this year raved about it being better and will be attending again in the future. I would need to experience it myself to say for sure but what has been shown to me by attendees looked far more enticing.

Sorry I do get off topic sometimes.

WSH

Your comments are noted, and shared by many here
As I said, there is def something lost with the Hagerty control and I noted as such in my response to them

As far as attendance, note that this is the third year of "Hagerty" Amelia, thus "charge" for Saturday.
Sunday tix are separate and not "double" counted with Saturday
The field, esp late day (somewhat driven by the rain midday) was as crowded as ever
One of my gym bros works for the Ritz-Carlton; they were sold out (of course), and fees were same as last year. He manages food & beverage and was above PY

I am first and foremost a capitalist; if Hagerty/Amelia don't address issues noted they'll lose big on their investment. Same for Rob Myers and his ModaMiami event

cobalt

I'll have to take your word however from my perspective I did not see remotely as many people there Sunday as prior years. Looked to me like less than half. There was a nice woman working the field keeping us off the cart path who proceeded to tell us her life story. She has worked at every event. She bent our ear for quite sometime asking where all the people were this year? She also felt the caliber of attendees had dropped significantly and found most were disrespectful and entitled unlike prior years. Her words not mine. Prior years the hotel was lined with vendors and you could barely move while the field was packed. No discussion panels or other events like before. This year even during the rain the hotel was empty. From what I saw there were as many people there Saturday as Sunday from my perspective. I guess I got in free for the C&C in 22. I suspect like any new event Moda will continue to grow. People are always looking for something new and different. Like the Bridge & their Amelia Hanger event I attend and show at is a fine event but the been there done that attitude is beginning to set in for many so keeping it fresh is becoming harder. IMO Hagerty needs to step up their game considerably and offer more instead of taking away if they plan to survive.

I understand it is a huge draw for the local economy and I do enjoy the area. I hope they do make the improvements needed but that will require some serious changes and investment into the event. They do need to bring back the placards so we can read something about the car and the Qr codes are absolutely useless. With Verizon I have no reception and their Wifi is sketchy at best. Maybe we will meet up one year.

Boosted321

Sort of on topic since it’s a market value thread, but my car(91’ 3.3) currently has cup 1’s. I am wanting new wheels. The obvious choice is the 964t speedlines, but to switch it up I was thinking about going with 993 RS speedlines.

How does the group feel about what that might do to value? Obviously I would keep the cup 1’s so an easy return to oem status, but just generally curious about what you experts think an oem+ look might do for the car.

cobalt

Looks are subjective and wheels a choice that shouldn't impact value, especially if you are keeping the originals. If that is what you prefer go for it. There are many choices for forged wheels these days that are considerably lighter which does change the dynamics of the car. It is easy to spend $8k or more on wheels these days without thinking twice.