When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Ok interesting on the track width, that IS attractive.
I need to check how much camber we can get with the ERP top plates. (Confirmed, a lot, and confirmed toe adjustment not an issue with the ERP parts) Keep in mind the toe and camber in that thread was using factory RS tie rods and RS top plates. Mine are aftermarket.
But... The track width if not causing tire fitment issues due to aggressive offsets I am using could be interesting. I have a similar setup on my 997rs (see my avatar picture) using gt3 grand am inner control arm links I get 10mm wider track per side and we push the top in to get to about -3 camber which is what I run (mostly track use) the downside is wheel fitment, on that car I'm right at edge barely fits (meaning it's perfect lol)
FWIW, this is my wheel setup
Front:18x8.5 +48
Rear: 18x10 +43
Going to be TIGHT. This is my concern on pushing the A-Arm track out more. May need to investigate this and amend/change later after setup and wheel fitment is investigated.
Thx for that pointer.
Joey making progress, booster/master cylinder mounted up, rothsport steering rack bushings. Rothsport steering rack brace will not work with my car (shown in pics but had to remove). PS hose design changed in 92 and the banjo bolt combined with the bigger 993 booster will not allow it to work. I'll get something fabricated later to brace that part of the steering rack. Good news i the RS sway bar while tight does clear.
I havent talked to Joey since I bought my car. I will - but the holidays and work have rearranged my priorities.
I will be updating my suspension in smaller steps than you. But I am struggling to see what can be done in stages. Can I do the KW club sports without doing the uprights for now? Or do the uprights require either a different length damper body or a different mounting attachment?
I havent talked to Joey since I bought my car. I will - but the holidays and work have rearranged my priorities.
I will be updating my suspension in smaller steps than you. But I am struggling to see what can be done in stages. Can I do the KW club sports without doing the uprights for now? Or do the uprights require either a different length damper body or a different mounting attachment?
Matt
I learned a long time ago do it all once. Or you'll pay 3-4 times due to the labor and time to change. :-) That said, i'm going pretty hard core with monoball everything, solid everywhere, good 2 way dampers, etc. You don't need to do all the things I'm doing. Doing the evo uprights has additional costs due to the brake changes.
If I were to do a a step one, i'd probably just do dampers, top mounting plates (better camber adjustment), RS sways, and adjustable drop links. This will let you get a good alignment, corner balance, with better dampers/spring rates.
The next step will be better bushings/monoballs. Then Evo uprights, tie rods, bump steer, brakes.
If you're doing bushings, do everything because the whole suspension needs to come apart to press out the bushings in the a-arms and swing arms in the rear.
For example on my time capsule stock 89 g-body, the only chassis work I did was: bilstein sport dampers front/rear, turbo tie rods, and a proper alignment. It drove like a new car.
But, talk to Joey, he knows these cars and what makes a difference.
I find this thread most interesting. I have recently completed a similar 964 build although mine was designed around using the original uprights. A gamble but I am pleased with the results. The car has the pace that I'd hope without any bump steer problems.
I specified my build coming from a 911 specialist driver's perspective ( mainly developing GT3's and racing 996/7 Cups) and applied much of what I had learned about the dynamics of the 911 chassis during that time - and more importantly, how to drive around some issues and capitalise on others.
The level of detail in your build is impressive. I am sure that the car will be a delight to drive, wish you every success with it and look forward to reading more as the project develops.
Last edited by Rancie; 01-10-2016 at 05:17 AM.
Reason: Error
Sorry, I meant the longitudinals. If you don't change them to the 993 version the tie rods are to long so you can't achive toe in, or even neutral toe. And camber will bottom out at maximum -1,0. I experienced this when I did this upgrade on my car so finally I had to buy the longitudinals to make it work. I found a used set. If you have a widebody it will work without these extra parts.
But it is a really good upgrade for track use. The front end gets so much better.
I have factory RSR top mounts with more adjustment than the factory RS version. Now I can get aorund -3,5 camber but I'm running -3,0 at the moment.
Steve, did you fit the 993 longditudinals to push the a arms out then but keep the rest of the 964 components? will you try this in the future do you think? I have them waiting to go on and am interested to hear if anyone has just changed these?
Do not remove the spare tire. I have seen these cars including the 993 have serious front end collisions with and without the spare in place. The spare is part of the crashworthiness of the car. It is designed to absorb part of the impact. Cars with it in place you can see held up far better than without. Unless you reinforce the tub I would reconsider and then by doing so your savings is not all that great.
I wouldn't use 993 longitudinals on a 964. On a 9993 964 longitudinals are sometimes used to allow wider wheels and tires. If you use 993 Longs. on a 964 it pushes the A-arm out, you end up losing tire room for the same alignment specs.
You need the RS or RSR outer tie rods, they have a different bend from the stock 993 outers to match the shorter steering arm on the 993RS wheel carriers. The inners are the part w/ the connection between the outer and inner. There are 3 different 993 inners, all are interchangeable, they come as a set of outer and inner unless specified otherwise.
GT2Evo/RSR/Cup 993.347.031.80 GT2/RSR/Cup inner 993.347.131.01 Monoball
993RS 993.347.031.81 harder rubber
993street 993.347.031.03 inner w/ rubber 993.347.131.01 softer rubber
Here is a set of short arm 993RS wheel carriers and matching 993RS outers.
To adapt them to a 964 the easiest thing to do is to shorten them ~.5", do your own measures before cutting.
I'd also update the rack to the later regular 993 type(not the 993RS rack which is the same as the later 964 rack), it's a faster rack and allows the brace to bolt on.
Since you only can buy the RS tie rod as unit, that's what I did. First tried to shorten the outer end but this was a lot of work since you shorten the threaded end and you run out of threads so you have to make more threads. So then the toe angle was OK but I still couldn't get the camber.
I'm not sure what you mean with running out of room. There's plenty of room to get every settting I want. And the wider track width gives me more front end grip.
8x18" with 235 Trofeos or 225 Michelin Cup1 when they still were available. ET50-52, not 100% sure.
Ok, thank you for that. My wheel specs compared to yours at a 52ET push my outer wheel out 10mm. That combined with 12.5mm of additional arm is going to be too much, I can almost bet it. Would require massaging of the fender + big cambers. I'm trying to stuff a pretty fat tire / wide wheel / aggressive offset up front, so this has the same effect as widening the track.
Wheels are BBS E88
Front: 18x8.5 +48 with 0288107 centers
Rear: 18x10 +43 with 0288107 centers
Tires are Nitto NT01
Front: 235/40-18
Rear: 275/35-18
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg
I wouldn't use 993 longitudinals on a 964. On a 9993 964 longitudinals are sometimes used to allow wider wheels and tires. If you use 993 Longs. on a 964 it pushes the A-arm out, you end up losing tire room for the same alignment specs.
You need the RS or RSR outer tie rods, they have a different bend from the stock 993 outers to match the shorter steering arm on the 993RS wheel carriers. The inners are the part w/ the connection between the outer and inner. There are 3 different 993 inners, all are interchangeable, they come as a set of outer and inner unless specified otherwise.
GT2Evo/RSR/Cup 993.347.031.80 GT2/RSR/Cup inner 993.347.131.01 Monoball
993RS 993.347.031.81 harder rubber
993street 993.347.031.03 inner w/ rubber 993.347.131.01 softer rubber
To adapt them to a 964 the easiest thing to do is to shorten them ~.5", do your own measures before cutting.
I'd also update the rack to the later regular 993 type(not the 993RS rack which is the same as the later 964 rack), it's a faster rack and allows the brace to bolt on.
Bill: thanks for the part numbers. For my setup we are using ERP outer tie rods with bump steer designed for the EVO uprights, and for the inner we are using the 993 C2 part but welding a washer (same effect as pinning) to make them solid, effectively like the cup part that is NLA. Kerry from ERP suggested this, he will have a Cup equivalent part soon, the manufacturing of these has been a big job.
On the steering rack, I almost made the change but when I saw I had a brand new 964 rack in there I opted to keep it for now, I can always change later when I put the ERP inners on (which I will do eventually). I'm making so many changes I wanted to feel the steering before I went to a quicker ratio rack.
The downside of my setup is the stock 993 rack brace won't fit as it is. I'm going to have something fabricated for now.
I think you and I have similar goals for the setup / chassis. Power is fun and all, but the FEEL of the car is what matters most to me. Think about it, when people bitch and moan about the 991GT3, what is it they are bitching about? The feel. Not the power, not the pace...
I'm not an engineer, just a DE/Canyon driver. But the engineer doing my chassis work... he's a history supporting US pro 996/997RSR cars. For some very famous drivers... :-) I'm sure he'll be applying a bit of that to my car. Same as he has for my GT3RS, and his own 85 hot rod.
Your pictures now bring another internal debate, 3.8 wing or not! Dammit! Oh well wing is easy enough to change :-)
01-09-2016, 07:21 PM
But I am struggling to see what can be done in stages. Can I do the KW club sports without doing the uprights for now? Or do the uprights require either a different length damper body or a different mounting attachment?
