cobalt

I have followed these cars since 2000 or so and I have come across two us spec factory sunroof delete non RSA 964 coupes. Might be limited content.

No but apparently it is better than the US spec cars.

???

creaturecat

the Euro cars are superior. plain and simple. lighter and lower. for starters.
as a general rule they are less "pimped out", as well.

bweSteve

It used to be the case in the 80's, that the ROW 911 SC's had the Nikasil cylinders, whereas the USA cars only had the alusil coatings. Big difference there.

I even remember going to the Hershey PA swap meet in the mid 90's, and seeing full sets of jugs/pistons, and the Alusil sets were $300,... and the Nikasil sets were $3k USED!!

... had a ROW 1979 911SC at the time, and I was always quite proud that my car had the Nikasil. Rebuilt that entire motor in my garage too, and it ran great for 5 yrs before I sold that one. Bought it in mid 90's for $6k, and sold it in 2003 for $13k. shoulda held onto that one. Loved that car too.

=Steve

cobalt

In which way are they lighter? Lowering the stance is a common upgrade usually results in improved performance over any factory suspension setup. I agree the early SC's and other air-cooled models had a superior ROW counterpart however only the ROW receiving the 964 RS versions were there any differences of notability regarding the 964.

ekoges

ROW cars are better. I have a USA C2, Japan non sunroof C2 and Japan 964 RS. THE ROW C2 is really something special. It’s less of a C2 and more of a “budget” RS. Lighter, simpler, quicker.

bweSteve

As Cobalt asked,... ^^ ekoges & creaturecat ^^ ... if you guys could do a straight up C2 to C2 comparison (USA -vs- RoW),...

Please elaborate in what ways specifically, it is those three areas. Please list out the specific differences (for each of lighter, simpler, quicker)....

For those here who are considering the PURCHASE of an example, this data would be very valuable. I have my books, but can't find this exact comparison,... and it seems ekoges has them sitting & driving them side-by-side.

Thanks in advance for taking a few minutes to type up this data. Thanks!!!
=Steve

creaturecat

let me guess? the superior headlights are only a modification away, as well.

cobalt

IMO these things don't make one superior over the other. Bolt on mods are all part of ownership and personalizing your car. Most are replacing their H4/H5's with LED lately anyhow.

If you can show me some upgraded bushings, engine mounts or internal improvements maybe but these are essentially the same and by now I see very few that still wear their H5 headlights (H4's a +, H1's IMO superior) I will agree stock condition the ROW is slightly better but Superior is a strong word. I would agree with you an RS is superior to a C2.

cobalt

I would be interested in seeing some objective evidence of this. The factory spec books seem to read otherwise.

pu911rsr

A US carrera cup weighed approximately 75 lbs more than the RS basic- the differences were US spec bumpers, airbags, CHMSL, door beams, power windows, alarm and central locking and standard seats- a big chuck of that 75 lbs difference would be the seats in my estimation. A US spec C2 was reported to be 3031 lbs and a ROW only RS touring was 2904 - difference of 127 lbs, don't know factory weight for a ROW C2.
Phil

myflat6

I have been trying to find more details about the ROW version as well. According to Peter Morgan's Original 911 book, there were a couple differences mentioned: US spec bumpers (telescopic dampers) and the early US cars had airbags whereas ROW did not. I couldn't find other differences. Interested if others can identify more differences.

Vandit

Here's an old thread that tries to shed some light on it. Some laughable stuff like "only RoW got the powerful motors" and some facts pointing out seemingly marginal differences.

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...ec-vs-row.html

cobalt

If you look at the factory technical specification book. There are few differences that have already been discussed. The RS and turbos are different animals and will require a thread of its own.

Essentially the 964 was one of the first 911's that was comparable to its ROW counterpart. Engines are the same producing the same output. As bill had mentioned in the other thread the CH transmission had different gear ratios but ROW and US are identical other than final drive of 3.667 vs 3.555. Brakes, running gear, Tires and wheels are all identical. Acceleration numbers identical.

US spec cars are 25mm longer due to the difference in the center bumper section.

No doubt if you are lucky to find a ROW 964 that was not ordered with a sunroof that is a plus. The lack of Air bags IMO a minus and the weight difference of 10KG is dependent on how a car is optioned. The ROW lowered stance of 10mm is nicer but we all seem to drop ours 20mm after upgrading the crappy boge shocks that came standard.

So unless I am missing something these cars are identical in most every respect ROW vs US spec. Any differences are nominal and clearly a ROW is not superior to a US spec car.

abarthguy

If you are selling one, the ROW cars are MUCH better !!

bweSteve

Ahhhhh!!!, now THAT makes some sense!!! hahahaha!!

Thanks for finally laying this to rest Cobalt. Once again, Rennlist Guru's have spoken and the conjecture is debunked.