jevvy964

Nice vids, thanks for posting.

So whats a stripped 996 feel like to a 964 owner? As much fun? less worry? A bit slower/faster? I kinda like the idea, how much weight have you dropped?

Sifly

I'll be honest, the only 964 I have owned is a 3.3 turbo, which I love for it's classic looks, rock solid build quality and shear 'event and occasion' of firing up the air cooled engine and heading off for a pleasure ride. I've been in several 964 and 993 track cars and love the no bull rawness and unique power delivery and handling.

I was never been a fan of the 996, I always thought they were too far removed from the air cooled cars and too diluted for the enthusiast. However ever since the mk1 GT3 there was never any denying their performance potential. Indeed, I had the pleasure of putting a few miles on a 996 turbo and was completely taken by its usability and shear epic performance and handling.

As with many things, time has changed many opinions - mine included. I have softened to the look of these early cars and have now got used to the water cooled idea. And as the early cars are now 16 years old, they are starting to attract a classic following. There simple lines remind me of the clean simple uncluttered lines of the early air cooled cars of 40 years ago.

The biggest change however has to be the price. A clean useable 996 can be had for around £10,000 compared to around £20,000 + for a similar 964. At the same time, early GT3's have started to increase in price and now have a dedicated fan base and following. I think these price changes make the standard 996's very difficult to ignore for anyone wanting an affordable porsche toy. I came across my car by chance at a price I couldn't say no to!

Having run a mk2 golf 20v turbo track car for a couple of seasons a while back (mainly chasing Steve and Kevin in their 964's) the track car project seed was planted.

As far as how does it drive, feel and perform compared to a 964? I guess you'd have to ask Steve or Kevin (who have both been for a ride). Bearing in mind the car has got upgraded GT3 spec suspension the handling feels very secure and stable. The power delivery is very smooth, linear and progressive.
Weight wise, I don't have any exact figures at the moment, but we took ALOT of stuff out! Every bit of trim from the front seats back has been binned, along with the leather dash board and door cards. You'd be surprised how much the rear carpets and sound deadening weighs! The car sat about 2 inches higher on its standard suspension after stripping out the trim! I want the car to be comfortable enough for a European road trip so I've fitted a lightweight GT3 RS front carpet and have some basic light weight boxster door cards to fit.

At Donnington I was only able to drive the car at around 8 tenths due to a sticking clutch pedal on the down shift and paranoia about a fairly substantial oil leakage which started after the first couple of hot laps, but initial impressions are very good. I have no doubt it will be able to hold its own against the road going 964's on track once fettled and fine tuned. Yes it may lack some of the occasion of the air cooled, hand built cars but I think it may have the edge when it comes to balance and drivability?!

Time will tell!

BillyB

Rabs, sorry for not replying. No, this is through www.trackdays.co.uk. The date just happened to work for a mate.

I might be going to Silverstone on 6th Nov too, if anyone is interested.

BillyB

Well I learned 3 things today: 1) a Decibel Devil takes 2bd off your noise (and a standard exhausts with decat is 102bd) 2) Castle Combe is pretty bumpy and in the rain is very slippery 3) I am not a good enough driver to get the most from, or even survive, a 964 on the track I fear my 964 days may be numbered. As Clint said, "A man must know his limitations". I feel an M3 beckoning (or perhaps a 996 on decent suspension, if I can be persuaded it is neutral-handling enough)

boxsey911

From the passenger seat it felt really well set up, very similar to the many 996GT3s I've experienced albeit without the howl and shove of the Mezger behind you. It didn't move around as much as a 964 but that would be partly down to Si taking it fairly easy....I know for a fact that he'll push it harder when he's ready to. For the cost involved I think he's made a shrewd move, only time will tell what sort of abuse the engine will cope with it compared to our almost bullet proof 964 lumps.

alexjc4

I didn't much enjoy my first Castle Combe experience earlier this year and that was in the dry, in the wet i can imagine its a tough place to get to know a car.

964s are considered pretty forgiving track cars, perhaps your setup needs looking at if you found it too hairy, might be something simple.

Silverstone is a great place to find a cars limits, lots of smooth tarmac and miles of runoff. The only things anywere near the track to hit are the pit walls.

Mondrian

Which track would be the best for a first timer?

Masher

Bedford is a nice track to start on. It is not a racing circuit so the run off areas tend to be grass in the main so little to intimidate or collide with should you go off. It is also 4 miles long so you don't feel hassled by other cars all the time which allows you to find your rhythm. However, it is also the track with the strictest noise requirements. My standard engine/ exhaust gets close on the static (98 of 101db allowed) but on drive-by I am fine.
Failing that, both Donington and Snetterton are nice circuits and not close twisty circuits where you can feel a bit more intimidated as a beginner.
Wherever you go, have fun.

Talat

I did CC for the first time earlier this year - I think the key, as with most tracks, is to get tuition early in the day so that you have a vague idea of where to place the car. When I did the sighting laps, the car in front of me (a lovely Speed Yellow 993RS btw) sped off into the distance and I struggled to work out placement even with the cones - horrible experience. I immediately came in and got an instructor next to me and from then on in I really enjoyed the day. That said, I struggled on Camp corner all day and could never get it right but I will definitely be going back.

If the issue is with the car itself then I can highly recommend CAT driver training - I did a day recently with them and I learnt a lot.

boxsey911

CC is indeed very bumpy. However, once you learn to trust that the suspension of our cars will absorb the bumps, it's great fun to drive. The key is to keep a light grip on the wheel and let the car find its own way i.e. don't fight it, go with the flow. Here's a video of me a few years ago following Oldtimer around when he had his RS:

boxsey911

For those interested in the annual RS day at Oulton Park, it's just been announced that it's on Friday 20th March 2015. It sells out very quickly so booking straight away is advised.

BillyB

Are they?! Surely a car with less front-to-rear weight differential will be easier to drive near the limit? I never tracked it but my old 944 Turbo was more confidence-inspiring (for a novice like me) than my 964.

It isn't a geo issue - that has all been checked and is sorted (although perhaps I should get it checked again...)

boxsey911

Prior to the 964 day at Curborough, a few slotted in the Porsche Club day at Oulton Park. In attendance were me in my white C2, Talat in his green widebody C2 and Sifly in his 996 C2 track car. Oldtimer joined us for the afternoon session in his Orange C2. Kev came along to support but left the RSs at home and just drank tea.

In contrast to Curborough, it was warm, dry and sunny. And with only about 40 cars taking part it was pretty much track day heaven.

Despite still having some teething troubles with his 996 Sifly got a lot more laps in than he did at Donington and we got to play video tag. Here's me at the front and then subsequently behind Si:


Here's the alternate view from Si's 996:


Here's the last session from mine which shows a perfect winter sunset and an almost empty track:


And here's Si's summary video of the day:

Cheeksyboy

I'm booked at Cadwell Park on 24 January....not sure what in at present!

alexjc4

At some point I need to make the effort to come up to Cadwell, but maybe best not January for a first attempt, next time ...

I'm doing Brands Indy on 17th Jan, as above not sure what in