Bill Verburg

Thanks very much!! It looks like a standard 964 piece. Yes, parts list would be helpful!

Cupcar

Fun Project, you never carry more water weight than you need since it's now visible. I used pictures I took of a European RS as guide for how tubing was run so it's path is the factory one.

964.501.261.00 Support bracket
964.528.019.00 Bottle(maybe supercession to .02)
911.628.077.00 Cap
999.181.722.40 Water hose, pump to windshield
431.955.651 Pump (may be same as you have in fender)
431.955.465.B Seal under pump
010.215.18 6x15 mm bolt bottle to bracket
011.666.7 washer under bolt

To install you will have to weld or pop rivet the bracket to the body. If you use pop rivets then don't forget to cover with body sealant on underside of fender. The position of the bracket is given in the 964 shop manual at the end of the body section in the section on conversion of body in white to an RS.

The trick I did was fabricate a harness using the factory male and female plug ends which I think are Porsche parts 815.971.989.A and 815.971.988. If not, then VW/Audi numbers 161.871.989 and 161.971.988 work. You will also need to get the special blade terminals that snap in the plastic plugs at the dealer. Shrink wrap the harness and lead it from the original pump plug to the new location and you are good to go for electricity. The other thing that needs to be done is flip the fittings that go to the windshield squirters under the dash cowel as the tubing now needs to be run up inside the right side fender. The grommets are there and need to be punched for the hose. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Flagg

Cupcar,

Your description of what you think happened on the assembly line to the early RSAs is interesting....

My RSA is in the first production year, durring the 1992 year - and I definitely have the rolled fenders and the "orange peal" paint (that was described in a earlier message) under the hood.

If your theory is correct, and the early RSAs did get the the same treatments as the Euro Touring RS - what are those treatmeants to the body? What else is special besides the rolled fenders?.......Perhaps just point me in the right direction (since this is all probably on your web page).........

Thanks, Flagg

Cupcar

Remember this is just my THEORY. If I am right then all the cars with have the last 5 digits of the serial number beginning with "18" had rolled fenders.

The changes for the RS Touring were simply to remove the brackets for the rear seating and sidewall trim in the rear so the carpeting would lie flat just as they were for the RSA.

In looking into this furthur there is one thing the Touring RS would have had the RSA did not and
it's the mount for the electic booster pump for the braking system. If my theory is correct-that all the touring mods were carried out- then early RSA cars would have this bracket welded in but not used. It is a bracket that is on the left side of the front trunk area above the battery welded to the front bulkhead about the level of the middle of the bumper.

The RSA and RS Touring-if I read my factory information correctly-DID NOT receive the N/GT racing mods such as fire extinguisher mount on passenger floor, a battery kill switch, provision for 36 a/h battery, 6 point seat belt mounts, rear stabilzer bar stiffening plate, front tow hook stiffener plate, and seam welding of rear suspension mounting area.

Flagg, Does your RSA have the bracket in the trunk? If so my theory is more plausible
<img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

marc 1xx1

Bob:

Your response supports much of what I have seen on other early RSA cars.

This may further support the "RS" writing on the early engine blocks as well...What do you think about that?

With regard to your last post:
I quickly checked for the bracket you mentioned, I did not see it in the area directly behind the black trim piece above the battery.

I will pull my spare to see if it is located in the lower area.

Will we ever know the "true RSA story"?

marc

9caregiver

Bob, I was glad to read your theory on the early RSA tubs. I still have my original Pano with your terrific article that for a long time was the only insight into the Lightweight 964 Porsches.

As you may have read in previous posts in this thread, we basically have the same theory in that European RS Touring body tubs were used in early RSA production. I was strongly disputed on this but you may have lent this more credibility. I will give this another shot...

I agree with you that the cars with an "8" as the fourth to last digit in the serial should have the rolled fenders. All of the RSA cars that I have seen with the "8" as the fourth digit had the rolled fenders including the three cars that I owned (8020,8060,8110). These were 93' cars built in 92' up to the Factory summer break. This as you stated would coincide with the Euro RS production.

It is VERY interesting to note however that I have observed RSA cars with a "9" as the fourth to last digit in the serial number WITH the rolled fenders also. These were low "9xxx" serial number cars. These would have been built after the Summer break in 1992 after Euro RS production had ended. This is how I summized that the Factory "used up" the remaining Touring tubs or unmodified for N/GT tubs in the RSA. (The car I presently own 9264 was built in 12/92 and does not have the rolled fenders.) Obviously they were built right after the break. It would be neat to poll RSA owners on rolled vs. non rolled fenders with serial numbers and production dates.

As you may know the body tubs were assembled with the rolled fenders in place (the rears at least) and the special bracketry and other modifications for N/GT were carried out by hand afterward. The brackets you speak of (not found on a standard Carrera 2/4) were probably added as part of the other modifications or added on the Touring tubs as needed, just as the brackets were added for the RSA rear box as needed. Hence if the other mods for N/GT/Euro RS (non Touring) were not carried out then those brackets should not be there either. I have never seen an RS America with any of the mods that were done on the Cup U.S.A. for example.

Bob I don't want to paint you into a corner but I have to ask you: these RS Americas that have the tubs with the rolled fenders also have "RS" written on both ends of the rocker boxes the same way as on the Euro RS/Cup Cars. (The non rolled fender cars do not have the markings.) Why do you think that is? I have stated in my previous postings that the factory again "used up" existing components, again strongly disputed. This all can't be that big of a MYSTERY. What do you think? Thanks.
Best,
Don A.

ltc

What do you all make of this (no affiliation, came across it on KeithV's site while surfing):

For Sale: 1993 Porsche RS America , Polar silver.(33 Factory Original Miles).It is also the 36th car manufactured in this series

It is a rare "718", and only the first 68 of these cars came with the European "Hand Welded Cup Chasis."

<a href="http://www.vararacing.com/RSAmerica1993.html" target="_blank">http://www.vararacing.com/RSAmerica1993.html</a>

The number 68 is the interesting part.

Cupcar

I think it would be keen to get the RS variants together in one spot all on hoists so they could be compared:

1)RS America's early and late.
2)European RS Lightweight, Basic or N/GT depending on what you want to call it
3)European RS Touring
4)European Carrera Cup
5)Carrera Cup USA Edition

Then one could study the chassis looking for the modifications. The factory literature is a little "sketch" as my son would say, since it is translated from the German obviously by individuals who did not really understand what they were translating. This is really true for the shop manual stuff which has information that you know is not right. For example it is not clear whether the Touring cars may have left in them the brackets for the luggage dump. It could be that they are in the Touring and that there is no difference between the RSA with rolled fenders and a Euro Touring.

As I said earlier, I think if the factory really "used up" Touring Tubs then the brackets for the brake booster pump should be in the trunk, unused on the RSA. HOPEFULLY some people with early rolled fender RSA's can check this. An owner of a 1993 production car has reported that his did not have the brackets. It should be noted that these would also be on a Carrera 4 and may be on other Carrera 2 cars if the factory cross used those tubs.

If a car is really seamwelded it should have the bracket welded in to reinforce the rear stabilizer mount as I have pictured in my post above. This is the easiest to spot verification of seamwelding looking under the car. Whether some number of the early RSA's were seamwelded I do not know. I really doubt that a car would have been seamwelded and not have the battery cut off and provision for the 36 a/h battery too, but it could happen.

As for the mysterious handwritten "RS" on the engines my guess is as good as anybodies. Obviously everyone wants it to mean that some assembly magic occurred on the line. The only difference between the RSA engine and the Euro RS engine, other than the fan drive in both Touring and N/GT and light flywheel in the case of the N/GT engine, is that the Euro RS engines have the engines assembled with selected pistons and cylinders from Mahle. They were weight group (--);Diameter group 2 or 3 and Cylinder height group 5. This means the largest diameter, shortest cylinders were used to obtain the largest displacement and highest compression ratio among the statisical vaiation in engines. This probably guarantees a so called: "high motor" in horspower. It is hard to imagine this is more than a few percent and hey you could get lucky and have one anyway by chance!!!!

I think if Porsche went to the trouble to select pistons and cylinders for the RSA they would have said so to increase the cachet of the car just as they did for the European cars, but that is just a guess...maybe they did use up some RS selected cylinder shortblocks along the way. If they did, then those of you with RSA's that have the RS written on them and have had the engines apart, what were the markings on the cylinders and pistons?

You gotta love this arcane stuff, Porsches, at the time these cars were built, were really a hand built car with much of the specification passed on by word of mouth among those who built them <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Jim Michaels

Way to go, Lewis. Yes, 68 is the most interesting part, but 718 is also interesting. The only 718s I know about are the RSKs and RS60/61s of 1957-1961. Some of the other claims my be incorrect, or at least misleading. For example, "This is the only European car 'Made for America'." Does he mean his particular RSA? If so, my RSA (#146) was also delivered new in Germany, as were a few others apparently. His claim that this (his?) car is the last lightened normally aspirated car sent to America is also ambiguous in the same way. Brian must be getting tired of pushing the car around, so wants to sell it. I remember years ago when the owner of RSA #001 (a white car) asked the exact same price for his. I heard that Windward eventually bought it, but at way below the initial asking price. Maybe this kind of advertising is what Adrian feared.

9caregiver

From what I understand the code "718" used in the RSA was for cars built prior to end of July 1992 as 1993 models. The "8" series cars are also "718" cars.

It is interesting to note that the 33 mile car was picked up at the Factory. What is strange it seems it was not driven there. A long way to travel to not drive your new Porsche around Europe. I am sure though someone will pay a premium for a virtually new car.

Best,
Don A.

Jim Michaels

Thanks, Don. Now I can advertise my car as a 718 when the time comes. I've been thinking about the never-been-driven part too. Maybe it's enough to sit in the driver's seat with hands on wheel and rev the motor. The car is now over 11 years old and still gets pushed around; trucked and shipped too. Maybe the car will end up in a museum somewhere, because once someone drives it, that part of its uniqueness is gone forever.

Cupcar

The 1993 RSA cars have Vin numbers in the American form with serial numbers beginnning with 18 or 19:

WPOAB296?PS4 18001....for cars built before the August 1992 break.

WPOAB296?PS4 19001....for cars built after the August 1992 break.

The Vin number code is:

WPO=Porsche manufacturer code
A= Coupe
B= Engine type
2=Airbag
96=First digits of "964" model type
?=random test digit
P=Model year 1993
S=Stuttgart manufacturing site
4=Last digit of "964" model type
Last 5 digits= serial number

I don't know where the "718" comes into play. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

ltc

I just ran "718" thru the options decoder
<a href="http://www.kindel.com/Porsche/options.asp" target="_blank">http://www.kindel.com/Porsche/options.asp</a>
Came back with nothing.

Surprising, since I ran 2 interesting codes from my RSA sticker thru it that no one knew and it came back with the answer. It was the option code for the Exclusive Program; apparently the first owner (who ordered the car) specified hand painted wheel crests thru Exclusive (I was just happy with the fact that he specified no sunroof!)

9caregiver

The code 718 shows with the option codes on the paper stickers that are affixed to the underside of the front lid and in the owners book.

9caregiver

Jim, Thinking more about the 33 mile car, I equate that ownership to being married to a Supermodel (retired?) and not being able to have $#@!!!! with her. I have been found guilty of buying low mile Porsches and actually DRIVING them. Life is too short, but that is what makes the world go around.

Best,

Don