RS America or Not?
05-01-2003, 02:31 PM
#46
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Don: Thank you for your informative post. Considering the frequent banter re the RSA, RS, and Cup USA cars, you can be a valuable contributor here. The "RS" in red crayon on the early RSAs (I'll take a look at #8146) certainly feeds more speculation about the RSA engines. Just a couple of weeks ago, Adrian Streather indicated that all RSAs, even the earliest builds, had the LUK DMF unit rather than the Freudenberg. I had long assumed that my RSA had missed the LUK unit by one day. I find it interesting that the cheapest 911 of the time remains the most mysterious. The truth is out there.
I'll cite Don's post on the recent "RSA and C2 horsepower" thread at this forum.
I'll cite Don's post on the recent "RSA and C2 horsepower" thread at this forum.
05-01-2003, 05:22 PM
#47
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I am afraid I am going to have to knock some the statements made on the head.
There were two separate procedures for seam welding, one for the RS Basic (I assume the RS touring was the same) and one for the RS NGT. To lay claim that Porsche used, unused RS Touring bodies is not supportable. There is not one shred of evidence to suggest this was carried out. RS Tourers had to be specially ordered and only 11 were sold. They were not even available in Germany or Switzerland. The records show the tourers were all sold to the UK in RHD form.
Now a little extra on the tourer. The RS Tourer had a Double mass flywheel and power steering.
There is again not one shred of evidence that the RS received special motors in fact the first series of 1993 models had 1992 engines installed. The RSA did not receive any of the system associated with the RS such as hydraulic brake boost, larger brake callipers, drilled brake discs etc.
The RS did not have rolled fenders they were actually beaded and only the top section was beaded. The list goes on. There is an official Porsche book on the RS series as well. It ias currently sitting under my computer. I also have the RS 3.8 version.
The RSA is a lightweight C2. Great car for the price. I wish the 964 RS had been so much cheaper than a standard C2 coupe but it wasn't. I look forward to evidence to support the assumptions.
I would explain the RS in red crayon simply that it identifies that the body was for the special RSA line, which was started in January 1992. The bodies had to be brought up to 1993 spec so they had to be marked accordingly.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
There were two separate procedures for seam welding, one for the RS Basic (I assume the RS touring was the same) and one for the RS NGT. To lay claim that Porsche used, unused RS Touring bodies is not supportable. There is not one shred of evidence to suggest this was carried out. RS Tourers had to be specially ordered and only 11 were sold. They were not even available in Germany or Switzerland. The records show the tourers were all sold to the UK in RHD form.
Now a little extra on the tourer. The RS Tourer had a Double mass flywheel and power steering.
There is again not one shred of evidence that the RS received special motors in fact the first series of 1993 models had 1992 engines installed. The RSA did not receive any of the system associated with the RS such as hydraulic brake boost, larger brake callipers, drilled brake discs etc.
The RS did not have rolled fenders they were actually beaded and only the top section was beaded. The list goes on. There is an official Porsche book on the RS series as well. It ias currently sitting under my computer. I also have the RS 3.8 version.
The RSA is a lightweight C2. Great car for the price. I wish the 964 RS had been so much cheaper than a standard C2 coupe but it wasn't. I look forward to evidence to support the assumptions.
I would explain the RS in red crayon simply that it identifies that the body was for the special RSA line, which was started in January 1992. The bodies had to be brought up to 1993 spec so they had to be marked accordingly.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
05-01-2003, 07:00 PM
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Adrian,
You may have misread my thread. The "RS" written in red crayon was on the ENGINE not the body the same way as written on my Cup USA cars which as you know were as a Euro RS. I feel this is a good shread of evidence that there was something special about these engines. Why else would they be marked? The factory did not mark C2 on the standard cars in the same place.
My statements are not assumptions. They are comparisons between the cars that I have owned. The rear fenderwell lips are identical between the early RSA cars and the Cup USA/Euro RS cars. I also noted in my thread that these were the only differences that I had found. I even had the carpet out on one of the RSAs and found no seam welding visible in the rear seat area where it can be seen on the Cup Cars.
You have to ask yourself three questions, Why did the early cars come with the fenders rolled when they were supposed to have identical bodies as the C-2? (rolled lips were never published as being on the RSA, You would think that if Porsche meant this to be on the car they would promote the rolled lips as a special feature not hide them) Why were the engines marked "RS" the same way in the early RSA as on the Cup USA/ Euro RS? Why were these two simmillarities to the Euro RS (rolled lips and "RS" written on the engine) together on the early RSAs only? I believe the answer was to use up existing components. Please give me proof otherwise.
Thanks. Don
You may have misread my thread. The "RS" written in red crayon was on the ENGINE not the body the same way as written on my Cup USA cars which as you know were as a Euro RS. I feel this is a good shread of evidence that there was something special about these engines. Why else would they be marked? The factory did not mark C2 on the standard cars in the same place.
My statements are not assumptions. They are comparisons between the cars that I have owned. The rear fenderwell lips are identical between the early RSA cars and the Cup USA/Euro RS cars. I also noted in my thread that these were the only differences that I had found. I even had the carpet out on one of the RSAs and found no seam welding visible in the rear seat area where it can be seen on the Cup Cars.
You have to ask yourself three questions, Why did the early cars come with the fenders rolled when they were supposed to have identical bodies as the C-2? (rolled lips were never published as being on the RSA, You would think that if Porsche meant this to be on the car they would promote the rolled lips as a special feature not hide them) Why were the engines marked "RS" the same way in the early RSA as on the Cup USA/ Euro RS? Why were these two simmillarities to the Euro RS (rolled lips and "RS" written on the engine) together on the early RSAs only? I believe the answer was to use up existing components. Please give me proof otherwise.
Thanks. Don
05-01-2003, 08:00 PM
#49
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Dear Don,
I have posted a full answer because it involves performance comparisons on the other thread. I deal in facts. Yes I misread your post. RS on the engine means that it was destined for a specific model. In this case the RSA. This was to let the production line people know where it had to go. The RSA engine is not fitted with power steering pump.
I reckon the reason for the rolled fenders was the 17 inch wheels.
The fact is Don and I do not have to ask myself any questions. The RSA is a cheaper lightweight version of the C2, nothing else. To try and create stories like this is fun but if you do, then somebody like me is going to ask for some evidence. I am not the one purporting a story so it is not up to me to prove anything. You have to provide the proof and your story whilst good over a beer maybe is not one that I can believe just yet. I should also point out that a RS body was just a seam welded C2 body. The procedure is in the factory manual to take a C2 body and make it a RS basic or RS NGT.
When you can provide some facts like stamped part numbers or similar then you might have a case. Until then it is just an unsubstantiated story. I went through a lot of these with my book and when I found the right person at Porsche they were dispelled. Sadly the 964 people are almost all gone from PAG now.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
I have posted a full answer because it involves performance comparisons on the other thread. I deal in facts. Yes I misread your post. RS on the engine means that it was destined for a specific model. In this case the RSA. This was to let the production line people know where it had to go. The RSA engine is not fitted with power steering pump.
I reckon the reason for the rolled fenders was the 17 inch wheels.
The fact is Don and I do not have to ask myself any questions. The RSA is a cheaper lightweight version of the C2, nothing else. To try and create stories like this is fun but if you do, then somebody like me is going to ask for some evidence. I am not the one purporting a story so it is not up to me to prove anything. You have to provide the proof and your story whilst good over a beer maybe is not one that I can believe just yet. I should also point out that a RS body was just a seam welded C2 body. The procedure is in the factory manual to take a C2 body and make it a RS basic or RS NGT.
When you can provide some facts like stamped part numbers or similar then you might have a case. Until then it is just an unsubstantiated story. I went through a lot of these with my book and when I found the right person at Porsche they were dispelled. Sadly the 964 people are almost all gone from PAG now.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
05-02-2003, 02:25 AM
#50
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While I am suspect that the subtle power difference between the RSA's and the C2 is the steering pump loss, I do agree with Don on the body mods. I have compared side by side rsa's and C2's and have found the fender rolled to the exact same point on the RSA's. These are known, one owner cars, all 93 rsa non sunroof coupes. I've rolled fenders myself on early cars, it is pretty obvious that these were rolled prior to painting.
Anyone have pic's of the seam welding for the RS or cup car?
Regards
Anyone have pic's of the seam welding for the RS or cup car?
Regards
05-02-2003, 09:13 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong> also had "RS" written in red crayon on the front of the engine (rear of car) behind the heat shield on the rocker box. This is the same marking that was on the Cup USA engines which were published as having hand selected parts or "blueprinting". </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Don,
Great post. However, in trying to dispell some of the rumors, you may have inadvertantly supported one. While I can't offer a surmise about the red crayon "RS", we know the Cup USA engines were the M64.03 engines, which have well documented differences from the standard M64.01 engine used in the C2/C4/RS America. There's an excellent article in Vol 10 of Up-Fixin, comparing the USA Cup Cars, RS, RSA, and C2, in all manner of details.
Great post. However, in trying to dispell some of the rumors, you may have inadvertantly supported one. While I can't offer a surmise about the red crayon "RS", we know the Cup USA engines were the M64.03 engines, which have well documented differences from the standard M64.01 engine used in the C2/C4/RS America. There's an excellent article in Vol 10 of Up-Fixin, comparing the USA Cup Cars, RS, RSA, and C2, in all manner of details.
05-02-2003, 01:06 PM
#53
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That excellent article that Bill cited in Up Fixin vol. 10 is a reprint of the article by Bob Gagnon (Pano, May '93) that I cited on page 3 of this thread. If you're interested in any of these cars, or how they compare, it's more than a must read. I've kept a copy of this article handy for almost 10 years now. There is text on each of the cars; tables with side-by-side comparisons on over 100 suspension, brake, engine, tranny, and bodywork components; and a list of the 31 initial Andial changes on the Cup USA cars. This article was out long before I heard any of the interesting stories and myths in the growing oral culture of the RSA.
I don't think that the RSA is in the same elite category as the early 911 RS cars because the early RS cars had a long list of performance enhancements over the other 911s of the day. I was told when I bought my car that it's market value would never be more than the '93 C2 because it had no power enhancement and too many were built. The MSRP on my car (with all options except the SR) new was $59,504. It's market value now (with 48k miles) is probably somewhere in the mid-30s. I expect it to continue to depreciate (at least in terms of constant USDs), although not as much as the C2. By the time I'm ready to sell, however, I might be thankful for whatever aura has developed on these cars.
I don't think that the RSA is in the same elite category as the early 911 RS cars because the early RS cars had a long list of performance enhancements over the other 911s of the day. I was told when I bought my car that it's market value would never be more than the '93 C2 because it had no power enhancement and too many were built. The MSRP on my car (with all options except the SR) new was $59,504. It's market value now (with 48k miles) is probably somewhere in the mid-30s. I expect it to continue to depreciate (at least in terms of constant USDs), although not as much as the C2. By the time I'm ready to sell, however, I might be thankful for whatever aura has developed on these cars.
05-02-2003, 01:21 PM
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Okay I got on the old blower today and contacted a colleague. No I will not identify him nor quote him. so if you do not believe this post then so be it.
The RSAs were built using C2 coupe shells. The rolled fenders are correct. If a 964 was fitted with option M030 or any other form of sports suspension and was fitted with 17 or 18 inch wheels the fenders had to be beaded or as you say rolled.
The RSA was fitted with option M030 sports suspension and 17 inch wheels so this policy was applied. Apparently this was reduce the possibility of the tyre impacting the underside of the fender.
If you find a 1992 Carrera 2 which was delivered from the factory with M030 and 17 inch wheels their fenders will also be rolled according to the information I received. If it was originally delivered with 16 inch wheels there is a great possibility that it was not worked on around the fenders. These kind of C2s are apparently very rare.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
The RSAs were built using C2 coupe shells. The rolled fenders are correct. If a 964 was fitted with option M030 or any other form of sports suspension and was fitted with 17 or 18 inch wheels the fenders had to be beaded or as you say rolled.
The RSA was fitted with option M030 sports suspension and 17 inch wheels so this policy was applied. Apparently this was reduce the possibility of the tyre impacting the underside of the fender.
If you find a 1992 Carrera 2 which was delivered from the factory with M030 and 17 inch wheels their fenders will also be rolled according to the information I received. If it was originally delivered with 16 inch wheels there is a great possibility that it was not worked on around the fenders. These kind of C2s are apparently very rare.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
05-02-2003, 01:27 PM
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Adrian, I am afraid I may be the one that knocks some statements you made on the head... First you stated there were 11 Touring versions produced. For the record out of a total of 2,280 Euro Carrera RS models there were SEVENTYSIX Touring versions built, 290 were the race version and the balance was the basic sport model.
The factory would also not mark the engine "RS" because of a power steering pump. The engines were marked before the accessories and exhaust were installed. The markings were behind the heatshield for the muffler and could only be written before the muffler and shield was installed. It is out of plain sight to be used as identification on the assembly line. Clearly it is obvious that they were marked because of something internal to the assembly(like cam timing). Also why would they mark the RSA the same way as the Euro RS engines?
Your explanation and information from a collegue for the rolled fenders being for 17" wheels is off as well. The 8"x17" wheels (standard on the RSA with the 030 suspension) were availible along with the 030 suspension on any other standard Carrera 2/4. They did not have rolled fenders. You do not need rolled fenders for 8" wheels. You need them for 9" and 9.5" wheels! The later RSA does not have the rolled fenders on it either.
We seem to have strayed from the points of my original thread. The observations that were made on the cars that I have owned. 1. The early RSA had rolled fenderwells. 2. The early RSA had "RS" marked on the engine the same way as on my Cup USA which as we know in really a Euro spes RS. 3. The later RSA models did not have these features. 4. The body tubs had to be intended for another model variation as rolled lips were not published as being featured on these cars. Porsche published that these tubs were identical to the standard car. If rolled fenders were intended for the RSA they would have been a feature used on the complete run of cars not just the first batch. Don't you think it is odd that these two features show up on the early RSA only and not the later cars?
Porsche started production of the RSA just before the end of the Carrera RS production. It is common knowledge that dealers had a difficult time in selling the Carrera RS before the production run ran out. It is totally logical that there would be left over body tubs and basic engine assemblies. The RSA was the answer.
Bill I do not feel I am supporting any rumors here about the engine. I think I have supported a good body of evidence, even if part is circumstantial.Yes you are right about serial numbers but there is no disputing the "RS" markings and the fact that the early RSA seems to have a bit more power. I have driven both and I am sure others can back me up here.
AXL 911, I do not feel the RSA will follow the 73 RS exactly. In my opinion the 73 RS is a Legendary car that can't be repeated. It can only be immitated. Even today with the coming of the new GT3 comparisons are being drawn to the 73 RS. The RSA will stay a collector car in it's own right.
Adrian, Sometimes a little detective work goes a long way when researching limited production Porsches. You can't always find the answers in a book or think that Porsche will have records or would even admit to this stuff. I know what I have seen on the six variations that I have owned of the 964 RS theme and other RSA and Cup cars that I have seen. Enough said. Regards, Don
The factory would also not mark the engine "RS" because of a power steering pump. The engines were marked before the accessories and exhaust were installed. The markings were behind the heatshield for the muffler and could only be written before the muffler and shield was installed. It is out of plain sight to be used as identification on the assembly line. Clearly it is obvious that they were marked because of something internal to the assembly(like cam timing). Also why would they mark the RSA the same way as the Euro RS engines?
Your explanation and information from a collegue for the rolled fenders being for 17" wheels is off as well. The 8"x17" wheels (standard on the RSA with the 030 suspension) were availible along with the 030 suspension on any other standard Carrera 2/4. They did not have rolled fenders. You do not need rolled fenders for 8" wheels. You need them for 9" and 9.5" wheels! The later RSA does not have the rolled fenders on it either.
We seem to have strayed from the points of my original thread. The observations that were made on the cars that I have owned. 1. The early RSA had rolled fenderwells. 2. The early RSA had "RS" marked on the engine the same way as on my Cup USA which as we know in really a Euro spes RS. 3. The later RSA models did not have these features. 4. The body tubs had to be intended for another model variation as rolled lips were not published as being featured on these cars. Porsche published that these tubs were identical to the standard car. If rolled fenders were intended for the RSA they would have been a feature used on the complete run of cars not just the first batch. Don't you think it is odd that these two features show up on the early RSA only and not the later cars?
Porsche started production of the RSA just before the end of the Carrera RS production. It is common knowledge that dealers had a difficult time in selling the Carrera RS before the production run ran out. It is totally logical that there would be left over body tubs and basic engine assemblies. The RSA was the answer.
Bill I do not feel I am supporting any rumors here about the engine. I think I have supported a good body of evidence, even if part is circumstantial.Yes you are right about serial numbers but there is no disputing the "RS" markings and the fact that the early RSA seems to have a bit more power. I have driven both and I am sure others can back me up here.
AXL 911, I do not feel the RSA will follow the 73 RS exactly. In my opinion the 73 RS is a Legendary car that can't be repeated. It can only be immitated. Even today with the coming of the new GT3 comparisons are being drawn to the 73 RS. The RSA will stay a collector car in it's own right.
Adrian, Sometimes a little detective work goes a long way when researching limited production Porsches. You can't always find the answers in a book or think that Porsche will have records or would even admit to this stuff. I know what I have seen on the six variations that I have owned of the 964 RS theme and other RSA and Cup cars that I have seen. Enough said. Regards, Don
05-02-2003, 01:37 PM
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For more information about RS Americas - statistics, options etc.etc. Please see the RS America Registry website which is <a href="http://www.rsamerica.net" target="_blank">http://www.rsamerica.net</a>
If you have the slightest doubt about differences between the C2 (a good car) and the RS America (an EXCELLENT car for primarily street use with occasional DE/Autocross/Time Trial track use) read up on it until your eyes hurt......
then go and DRIVE the sucker! You will not be indecisive at all.
Keith V.
Registrar - PCA RS America Registry
<a href="http://www.rsamerica.net" target="_blank">www.rsamerica.net</a>
If you have the slightest doubt about differences between the C2 (a good car) and the RS America (an EXCELLENT car for primarily street use with occasional DE/Autocross/Time Trial track use) read up on it until your eyes hurt......
then go and DRIVE the sucker! You will not be indecisive at all.
Keith V.
Registrar - PCA RS America Registry
<a href="http://www.rsamerica.net" target="_blank">www.rsamerica.net</a>
05-02-2003, 04:48 PM
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Wow - this thread has legs and I'm with the brown shoes, way out of my depth.
But - the original post was about getting a reg c2 or RSA and having an RSA and never driven a regular c2 I had to put that right and now, I have an opinion which you're about to get.
You can't go wrong with either but for my money, the C2 felt like it had too much junk in the trunk. The extra pounds, or smoother ride made it "feel" not as lively as the RSA. It may have been, but it felt different and I like my women frisky.
Think of it as kirsty ally vs cher.
But - the original post was about getting a reg c2 or RSA and having an RSA and never driven a regular c2 I had to put that right and now, I have an opinion which you're about to get.
You can't go wrong with either but for my money, the C2 felt like it had too much junk in the trunk. The extra pounds, or smoother ride made it "feel" not as lively as the RSA. It may have been, but it felt different and I like my women frisky.
Think of it as kirsty ally vs cher.
05-02-2003, 08:37 PM
#60
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I'm sorry - and this is NOT a Flame...
This has GOT to be one of the most interesting "threads" I have *ever*, and I mean *EVER* read on Rennlist..!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Talk about mixing "Myth - Fact - Lore - Legend - and BS"... Hollleee Smolleeee..... You RSA owners must be wringing your hands in glee with expected price increases....!!! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Seriously - a few days ago, I started trying to read and track this thread - which is almost an impossible task - but I tried... So, I made a few phone calls - yes, outside the US to a few friends. (Running this site for 6 years and spending several days at the factory, you develop some "new friends" outside the US). While I can't say who I spoke with - nor their company/position - ummm - suffice it to say if I asked them to send me a beer from the vending machine in one of the stairwells from the factory floor - they might be able to do that without too much delay... However, I will not confirm, nor deny, they are a Porsche employee of 20+ years...
So - without much detail from those conversations - let me give you some snippets.....
"Rolled Fenders" - "John - PORSCHE DOES NOT ROLL FENDERS! Porsche used a technique during the manufacturing process for those cars - and a few C2s which had the 17" wheel option. Who would say that Porsche would "roll a fender lip"? Porsche did by peening the panel so that those wheels cleared under all driving conditions. Look at two examples - and you will see that it was a manufacturing process - not a hand rolling process by a Porsche employee using, what you would call - a "baseball bat"".
"Special Engines" - "All of Porsches engines are hand built. You spent two days at the factory to know that is true. The process was the same that you saw - they meet special testing requirements, break-in/test periods, power output and are built in that way. The "special" engines are usually selected for racing applications only or design cars. Certainly not for the RSA. That car was built as slightly different model then the C2, not a racing car. The RSA was still a production car"...
Conversation goes into production numbers by country and comes back to other items in this thread, like welded tubs, why some were and were not, etc.
"Red Crayon" - (met by huge gails of laughter
) "When you find the Yellow Crayon marks - I am sure that the American sellers will demand $10,000 more for that one compared to the Red Crayon writing" (OK - he is still laughing here, but harder - and so am I at this point <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) "The engine was matched to the body - Red - or even Yellow - or any color, which the mechanic had as a pencil in their pocket - does not mean a "super-powered" engine - it merely meant whether the engine was to be fitted with or without the components required by the C2"...
Conversation drifts into a lot of other aspects of the RSA, C2, C4, swiss production, units sold in Germany, some pretty cool "specials", etc..
I could go on-and-on - but it was pretty funny...!!!
Sorry - I am still LOL too hard to type... But this will be my last post on this thread. Whoever said in this thread "DO THE RESEARCH" is EXACTLY RIGHT - except do it beyond the damned owners manual... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
This thread will also 'prolly make it into a PCA "thingy" - ROTFLMAO..!!!!!!!
Oh - and the RSA is an exceptional Porsche. If I could afford one - I would. But with threads like this, I think they'll be approaching the price of a '73 RST/L in the near future. And if you haven't driven one on the track - they are even better there.....
Have a terrific weekend.....
This has GOT to be one of the most interesting "threads" I have *ever*, and I mean *EVER* read on Rennlist..!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Talk about mixing "Myth - Fact - Lore - Legend - and BS"... Hollleee Smolleeee..... You RSA owners must be wringing your hands in glee with expected price increases....!!! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Seriously - a few days ago, I started trying to read and track this thread - which is almost an impossible task - but I tried... So, I made a few phone calls - yes, outside the US to a few friends. (Running this site for 6 years and spending several days at the factory, you develop some "new friends" outside the US). While I can't say who I spoke with - nor their company/position - ummm - suffice it to say if I asked them to send me a beer from the vending machine in one of the stairwells from the factory floor - they might be able to do that without too much delay... However, I will not confirm, nor deny, they are a Porsche employee of 20+ years...
So - without much detail from those conversations - let me give you some snippets.....
"Rolled Fenders" - "John - PORSCHE DOES NOT ROLL FENDERS! Porsche used a technique during the manufacturing process for those cars - and a few C2s which had the 17" wheel option. Who would say that Porsche would "roll a fender lip"? Porsche did by peening the panel so that those wheels cleared under all driving conditions. Look at two examples - and you will see that it was a manufacturing process - not a hand rolling process by a Porsche employee using, what you would call - a "baseball bat"".
"Special Engines" - "All of Porsches engines are hand built. You spent two days at the factory to know that is true. The process was the same that you saw - they meet special testing requirements, break-in/test periods, power output and are built in that way. The "special" engines are usually selected for racing applications only or design cars. Certainly not for the RSA. That car was built as slightly different model then the C2, not a racing car. The RSA was still a production car"...
Conversation goes into production numbers by country and comes back to other items in this thread, like welded tubs, why some were and were not, etc.
"Red Crayon" - (met by huge gails of laughter
) "When you find the Yellow Crayon marks - I am sure that the American sellers will demand $10,000 more for that one compared to the Red Crayon writing" (OK - he is still laughing here, but harder - and so am I at this point <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) "The engine was matched to the body - Red - or even Yellow - or any color, which the mechanic had as a pencil in their pocket - does not mean a "super-powered" engine - it merely meant whether the engine was to be fitted with or without the components required by the C2"... Conversation drifts into a lot of other aspects of the RSA, C2, C4, swiss production, units sold in Germany, some pretty cool "specials", etc..
I could go on-and-on - but it was pretty funny...!!!
Sorry - I am still LOL too hard to type... But this will be my last post on this thread. Whoever said in this thread "DO THE RESEARCH" is EXACTLY RIGHT - except do it beyond the damned owners manual... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
This thread will also 'prolly make it into a PCA "thingy" - ROTFLMAO..!!!!!!!
Oh - and the RSA is an exceptional Porsche. If I could afford one - I would. But with threads like this, I think they'll be approaching the price of a '73 RST/L in the near future. And if you haven't driven one on the track - they are even better there.....
Have a terrific weekend.....