Here is the video 60-130 in 8.33 sec. and Faust realized the Ford GT has more boost than stock. This is reality here not fantasy. Controlled setting with pro drivers. This is not crazy fast and many modified cars can perform like this including 2.5 L 944 turbos. Im sure for you this would be slow and your friends cars would be at 200mph in 8 sec.
Respect the fact that this is a 951 forum.

 

Oh well this kind of thread would not be this kind of thread without somebody having a bitch fit!. 60 to 140 is where these cars shine and they do that very well thank you very much! Always have and that's as we all know is why the factory detuned them!

If "someone" has a problem with this thread AFAIK they don't have to read it! Logic has nothing to do with it some of us just like fast four's!

 

the idea that the 'de-tuned from the factory' simply isn't true. not even close. Porsche knew what they were doing. you can be sure they tested hundreds of engines. their enthusiasm for the development program was considerable.... and in the end they determined exactly where to draw the line for the production-cars, but, still leave a reasonable margin for service longevity.... the 968 came without the option of turbos (16 cars notwithstanding). that's a handicap to be sure. and there, your argument would be valid.... but 250 hp from 2.5 liters is a considerable and respectable amount of power in 1985~87 (when they were developing the cars with stone age engine management in a measured, performance platfom).... cutting edge for the time.


tune the cars to 50~75 hp over stock and you'll be able to enjoy a great car for a long time.

if you want more power, get a V8.

 

My feedback comes from real world experience in both 944's and other platforms and I usually don't post in these 944 versus the world threads because it's full of silly comparisons with no real world practical experience. Some guy is in traffic and raced for half a gear, or was at some car show or worst is pulling info from some magazine article. Case in point the guy above my post that's showing a tv show as evidence to back up his claims about a race that didn't involve him and wasn't even real.
Moved up? I've always had a problem with these silly my 944 is better than this 150k car threads because I did all my own work, or because my motor is more efficient or because my car has cup holders, etc, etc. It's silly and is unfortunately a huge part of this hobby. You go to a camaro forum they'll argue to the nail how it's the best car in the world, mustang forum, porsche forum, ferrari forums, etc. They all fall prey to this same pattern. Very few people actually just appreciate cars and aren't interested in always trying to prove how what they drive is superior. It's unfortunate that we can't just enjoy a car for what it is or what it means to us instead of always trying to prove it's somehow "better".

Btw according to yours and Chris's definition of a true enthusiast. I guess I never was considered one. Someone else always built my cars. My 3rd 944 that most of you remember had a lot off different shops touches on it, not one wrench was ever turned by me. So I guess I'll just have to go sit over in the corner with the other guys who write checks and aren't real true auto enthusiasts.
Again a 944 performance wise is not going to be on par with a Ford GT, sorry to burst your bubble. Of course what do I know, it's not like I own any of these cars in question.

Here's a video of what makes up the modern modded car hobby today. Enjoy
The black car that put so many lengths on John and the ZR is Roberts car its about 1300wheel.

 

No one is saying one is "better" than the other. I'm just saying I can certainly run with them. I'd trade in a minute.

It always comes down to a pissing contest. Stupid really... Why can't people just be respectful of what someone accomplishes without trying to tear them down...

The cars you posted are nice and all, but in the end I could post cars that are 6 second rides (that Iv'e tuned) ... But what is the point?? We are talking about an encounter with a Ford GT and a 3.0 951. You're saying that a 951 can't run with one and I'm showing you that my trap speeds say otherwise and I'm up in the frickin clouds for DA....

In regards to enthusiast (not the proper word I guess) ..well that's just my opinion. I know there are many that just write checks. IMHO I'd rather talk to the guys that are doing the work than signing a check. The details of a project are much more revealing that way..But again..My opinion....

 

Not sure what you are getting at but the 5 secs run for the GT was done by professionals also. I don't have to post a vid to proof a point. If you want to experience what I have then simply get into a bigger displacement 944 and run it against a super car- simple. You just hopped onto this thread and immediately discard all of the well respected tuners and engine builders on here, who, I assumed have more current knowledge than you, is a little silly. I don't know the history of your projects past posts but sound to me like you have some lingering resentments of these cars and you are out of the 951 scene so you want to bash them and their owners any way possible. It's a little strange to keep seeing you insisting that I was out there to make it a 951 vs. the world of super cars. There is a disconnect in your generalization- you are clearly missing a few simple points I was trying to convey. And no, your super car is still a super car ok, don't worry, I am not out there to race against it. So calm down, John, take it easy.

 

Oh my where do I start, John as far as I remember you were one of the original 951 street racers on this forum I remember before you almost died, seen videos of you and your 951 smoking a c5 with a k26-6 and 22psi of boost, I saw it and you were like 400lbs plus a passenger by then you were riding in a stock 951 that's like a 3500lbs in a stock 951 smoking the hell of a vette c5 packing 350hp ls v8, I promise I will find the video. Anyway what is the real world? a group of guys in TX with 1200-1500 cars? rolf, real world John is POC and PCA road racing that's where you can measure how the 951 performs against cars worth 10 times it's cost, not the night world of street racing, I have had the opportunity to meet some wealthy people here in LA which own some of those real world super cars but unlike TX they are stock. So obviously someone is living in a delusional world where a tiny percentage of modified cars are NOT the real world. Join POC or PCA, look at the Buchanna'ns brothers winning race after or Lanny Curlett, Patrick, Syd, the OC racers etc. That my friend is real thing, on the other side street racing is nothing short of the Saudi Arabia drift videos.

Have fun

lart

 

This thread is repeated over and over and over again in every forum. I've belonged to many. Fiero's. LOL. laughable, but they have these threads with their supercharged V6's, V8's. etc,. Subarau's, Talon's, Honda's, Acuras, Porsches. ALLLLL have this thread and fight. We are on these forums for a reason. We love our cars. I've done enough to know that you can mod any car to be whatever you want it to be. Yugo's and Geo's excluded for shame value I'm putting a LS6 type motor in this Porsche, does it mean I now have corvette straight line status/options of these cars? So now is your argument FOR my Porsche or the Corvette? That's just straight line stuff. OK.. Corvettes can turn. So can the Porsches, and you can mod both to handle just as well as the other. it all becomes custom parts. The fine line becomes very blurred in my world of fabrication. I've learned it just doesn't matter what car you start with, If you mod it enough, they all become close to the same car. (large enough budget vs large enough budget)
Clearly, the original poster was PROUD to compare his car to the Ford GT. Because the Ford GT is a very nice car and nice to be able to get close to. It's a sweet feeling from a lesser known vehicle stock for stock. It is what it is. The 944 turbo crowd is more of an underdog car crowd than most anyway. I can take whatever car you have and with a sweet *** check, make it nicer than any other car that's out there, until someone else writes a blank check and makes a car nicer than that one. ... This argument cannot die from its very nature. There is always a bigger fish. Which is why we have forums so that we can pick a car and just, "Love the one you're with."

Like Luis states, TX has some of the Countries Meanest cars. Straight line cars. You drive for 30 miles and turn left into your driveway around here, so it's not a shock. We're strong in power companies / services and damn near recession proof. There are just insane rides that make us think it's like this everywhere. It is not. Hennesy, MTI (not here anymore) TX Turbo (now gone too) Texas performance and Speed - HUGE - TX mile.. Annual National SUPRA meet is here in Houston. Our coffee and Cars makes any car show look like a $2.00 petting Zoo. Etc. etc.

Here are a few pics of the last Coffee and Cars Houston I went to:

 

What about any of my postings has you thinking I'm up in a hizzy? I created a number of similar threads about other make bashing even when I owned a 944, I'm the same guy now I was then. For you to say that it left a bad taste in my mouth is reaching at best. I loved my 944's and wouldn't trade those experiences for anything in the world. In fact I might one day build a 968 because I'll always have a soft spot for them.
I couldn't agree with you more Lart. The real racing is at the track and always will be. This other bull**** is just that bull****. For most people the occasional run in on the highway is as close as they'll ever get to realizing their cars full potential and infact was the basis of this thread hence why I'm staying on topic. If you'd like to talk real racing we can that technology has advanced even further than street car tech.

I enjoyed running my 951 against friends for fun, it's just that nothing more. Same with the corvette, same with the V, same with any car I'll ever own. A group I know does rent an air field a few times a year if anyone's ever interested in roll on's without the stupid childish night crap. Lart is also 100% correct about the scene in DFW its among the strongest in the country for high powered street cars and can easily screw up someones perception of speed. For most 500hp is un godly fast, for me maybe if it was bent into a turn otherwise not even close. That's the problem with the straight line bull****, you need a lot of power just to make it fun. You can have boat loads of fun turning with 200hp.

How business been for you old friend?

 

I don’t recall anybody saying the 944 was the be all / end all, that’s just how you want to interpreted what you are reading. It was not a street race and the poster did say he ‘won’…the subject of the thread was that he kept up with a poorly driven Ford GT.
And yes – street roll are for punks. If you really want to race then pony up and do it right, on the track – road, ¼ mile, rally or even circle track.

I have but one simple way to compare cars – its based on cost. As you like to put it the 944 is a$ 5k car and the Ford GT is a $150-200k car. What the hell kind of comparison is that? It’s a pointless one – might as well compare the Ford GT to an F1 car – its about the same cost ratio!!!
Now it you want to have what I would consider a fair comparison take your $175k (I’ll use an average cost) Ford GT and compare it against a $175k 944 turbo. In that comparison the Ford GT will have a pretty tough time running with the 944 (since there are no rules in street racing I can show up in a 944 with anything I want in the engine bay!).
So bring your modified / race Ford GT and I get to spend the same on a 944…..its kind of pointless idea - but then so is the idea the you think that street racing means anything and that a $5k car should race a $175k car.
Yep, I guess you caught my drift. However, I didn’t mean that ‘my car’ is better, to be fairly blunt, to me it simple means that one guy is a ‘Car Guy’ and the other one is just somebody that has some cash to throw around – he can still be an ‘enthusiast’ but he does not fit my description of a ‘Car Guy’. To be even more blunt if you don’t get the difference then you simply can’t be a ‘Car Guy’.

BTW – there is one category that the 944 will never hope to be in the same league as the Ford GT – that’s the ‘impressing non car people’ category. I will admit that the Ford GT way out classes the 944 in that area…..luckily I don’t give a crap about the category!

 

So I watched the ‘Vette video and I can’t help but think that when they were done they pulled over, got out a tape measure and started measuring….well, you know.

 

Can I ask what do you tell your customers that you do builds for? You mean if I call you up and say "hey Chris I want you to build me a car" you don't consider me an enthusiast? I think that's pretty foolish. Lot's of people respect vendors and builders for their knowledge on various platforms. They pay good money not because they aren't enthusiasts, but because they understand the value of that knowledge and are willing to pay to have it.

As far as your comments on the comparison being silly because of the money difference I whole heartily agree which is why this entire thread and the guys comments are quite silly.

Hey man, I'm only packing 4" on a good day. I gotta take what I can get.

 

I have no problem with those who form their own opinions. I am not trying to ruin this board by posting my personal experience that I believe was a positive one, to contribute to the 951 enthusiasts. I could easily go on here and post, I got beaten by a Ford GT by trying to race it, which I would gladly do if it was the case. Then someone would jump on here to tell me why I got beaten. I even mentioned that I tried a simulated run against an Ferrari Enzo back in the days with my 2.5L and couldn't do it- didn't even know it was an Enzo until I got home. Heck if I said that I was able to keep pace with an Enzo, then yeah, I expect you guys to call me out. I give credit where credit is due and have respect for what we are trying to accomplish here as a community. It's fine if some don't agree with my posting, experience, or results - to each his own, but to outright make generalizations to a point of being disrespectful to others on here who have and are currently supporting the community with either their knowledge, product/services, and tuning ability is just, well, sad.

 

Take another look – I didn't say that guys with checkbooks are not “enthusiast”, they are. So are collectors that never drive their cars and so are the concurs guys and the loud stereo guys – they all are enthusiast. My definition of a ‘Car Guy’ is pretty handy because I get to define it! ‘Car Guys’ are the guys that work on their own cars, learn about what really works and enjoy building almost as much as driving. A real ‘Car Guy’ appreciates effort over expenditure. ‘Car Guys’ take pride in expressing themselves in their creations – yes, not all can build from scratch, that’s not a requirement, but they can select the right parts and assembly the final product. To your point about my customers – 90% do their own engine installs.

They have bolt on mods for that!

 

Look, you are probably a nice guy and no doubt a car enthusiast. But to come on my thread and pretty much stopped short of calling me a liar like you know all there is to know about our cars is not how I would envision you, even not knowing you, being a nice guy with a soft heart for 968. You didn't just call my story bs, you also indirectly call out many other builders on here too and call their product/customers bs, so I can't imagine that that is appreciated and contributing to this forum. I do hope you come back and build a real nice 968 so that I can come on your thread and bash it...j/k. No, I would offer you positive feedback when I can and encourage you to see it through...to keep the spirit alive and well.