aftermarket/Euro Throttle body for 16V
10-30-2003, 09:03 PM
#1
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aftermarket/Euro Throttle body for 16V
I was wondering if any kind of aftermarket throttle body or Euro in that case would work well on my car and if any kind of performance gains could be achieved by doing so?
Thanks,
Cory Johnt
1982 Weissach
Thanks,
Cory Johnt
1982 Weissach
10-30-2003, 09:20 PM
#2
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I don't know if you would get any gains from adding a larger TB alone. As far as a larger TB goes you may look at trying to adapt a Ford TB. Holley makes one for Fords that is 105mm. It is similar in shape to the pre S4 TBs.
Here is a link to some TBs that may be adaptable.
HTH,
Andy K
Here is a link to some TBs that may be adaptable.
HTH,
Andy K
10-30-2003, 11:22 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Measure the various points in your intake system.
I belive you'll find that the smallest is the intake runners. I belive they're the bottle neck. A bigger TB probably won't help at all, unless you remove the bottle heck.
I belive you'll find that the smallest is the intake runners. I belive they're the bottle neck. A bigger TB probably won't help at all, unless you remove the bottle heck.
10-31-2003, 04:52 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Not true, we added a larger throttle body on an 84, and got 42 more hp. (just TB and runners . even though we exceeded the Square area of the AFM, the increase in size (2.5" vs 3.3" ) helped tremedously. Now, on an S4, I dont think the gains are there. the MAF is already 3.5" diameter.
We just did the same thing on a 82US 4.5 liter. power was much much better. will do the dyno soon. only change was the TB and runners. (runners are only .1" larger diameter, so Im sure most of the gains are in the TB)
think of the Throttle body (small ones) as a restrictor plate.
Mk
We just did the same thing on a 82US 4.5 liter. power was much much better. will do the dyno soon. only change was the TB and runners. (runners are only .1" larger diameter, so Im sure most of the gains are in the TB)
think of the Throttle body (small ones) as a restrictor plate.
Mk
Originally posted by ViribusUnits
Measure the various points in your intake system.
I belive you'll find that the smallest is the intake runners. I belive they're the bottle neck. A bigger TB probably won't help at all, unless you remove the bottle heck.
Measure the various points in your intake system.
I belive you'll find that the smallest is the intake runners. I belive they're the bottle neck. A bigger TB probably won't help at all, unless you remove the bottle heck.
10-31-2003, 04:54 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
the problem is, getting it to mate to the plenuum. the TB is easy to mount to the US "U", but the plenuum without a euro version, will be a trick. may have to cut and weld in alum to make one fit. Not a huge deal, but still something you would absolutely need to do. the US plennum entrance is only 2.5" diam. the euro TB is 3.3" diameter and the plenum matches this.
MK
MK
Originally posted by GoRideSno
I don't know if you would get any gains from adding a larger TB alone. As far as a larger TB goes you may look at trying to adapt a Ford TB. Holley makes one for Fords that is 105mm. It is similar in shape to the pre S4 TBs.
Here is a link to some TBs that may be adaptable.
HTH,
Andy K
I don't know if you would get any gains from adding a larger TB alone. As far as a larger TB goes you may look at trying to adapt a Ford TB. Holley makes one for Fords that is 105mm. It is similar in shape to the pre S4 TBs.
Here is a link to some TBs that may be adaptable.
HTH,
Andy K
10-31-2003, 05:02 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Re: aftermarket/Euro Throttle body for 16V
42 hp for the euro intake system.
(tb, plenum, and runners)
is yours a CIS? if it is 82 weisach, we just converted Scot grahams 82 weissach. results were spectacular. just raced it this weekend. turned a 1:57 at sears point. not bad for a 4.5 liter US stock,with headers! (and euro intake)
put the euro heads and mate that to a 5 liter bottom end, plan on burning rubber!! 293hp at the wheels for this set up.
small things to modify when doing the euro conversion. plugging off some vacuum lines, and caping off some hoses. Porting the US "U" that attaches the AFM is the only hard part. (not that hard, just have to find a air grinder and hand portmatch the new euro TB to the US " U" .)
after that, bolt it all togther and go racing!@! Big Gains!!
Mk
(tb, plenum, and runners)
is yours a CIS? if it is 82 weisach, we just converted Scot grahams 82 weissach. results were spectacular. just raced it this weekend. turned a 1:57 at sears point. not bad for a 4.5 liter US stock,with headers! (and euro intake)
put the euro heads and mate that to a 5 liter bottom end, plan on burning rubber!! 293hp at the wheels for this set up.
small things to modify when doing the euro conversion. plugging off some vacuum lines, and caping off some hoses. Porting the US "U" that attaches the AFM is the only hard part. (not that hard, just have to find a air grinder and hand portmatch the new euro TB to the US " U" .)
after that, bolt it all togther and go racing!@! Big Gains!!
Mk
Originally posted by Weissach1982
I was wondering if any kind of aftermarket throttle body or Euro in that case would work well on my car and if any kind of performance gains could be achieved by doing so?
Thanks,
Cory Johnt
1982 Weissach
I was wondering if any kind of aftermarket throttle body or Euro in that case would work well on my car and if any kind of performance gains could be achieved by doing so?
Thanks,
Cory Johnt
1982 Weissach
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10-31-2003, 05:55 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
Mark, did you try it with the US throtal body and Euro runners? Instead of Euro TB and runners.
When I measured out the system, the runners seemed to be like the bottle neck in the system. The TB seemed to be at adquite, but the runners seemed to be about 3/4 the size they could be. Thus I figured that unless you could make the runners bigger, there wasn't much point in increaseing the size of the TB.
When I measured out the system, the runners seemed to be like the bottle neck in the system. The TB seemed to be at adquite, but the runners seemed to be about 3/4 the size they could be. Thus I figured that unless you could make the runners bigger, there wasn't much point in increaseing the size of the TB.
10-31-2003, 06:04 PM
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OK, speak slowly for me 
Putting a Euro TB and intake on my otherwise completely stock '84, or stock '82 will result in a power increase?
Is this the kind of thing that adds to peak power, but robs low-end torque, or can one expect overall improvement? Remeber, I'm asking about what happens when you add this to a stock vehicle.
Putting a Euro TB and intake on my otherwise completely stock '84, or stock '82 will result in a power increase?Is this the kind of thing that adds to peak power, but robs low-end torque, or can one expect overall improvement? Remeber, I'm asking about what happens when you add this to a stock vehicle.
10-31-2003, 06:11 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
oh god know. the runners go from 1.5" diameter to 1.6" diameter. it would do nothing ( that is 1.76 sq" vs 2sq") if you use two cylinders open at any given time, its 3.5 vs 4 sq " comparison area) Now, take a 2.5" diameter TB and thats 4.9sq " area. runners appear to be a slight bottleneck, until you look at the AFM at 4.1sq" euroTB vs US is 4.9 vs 7 sq"
the system looks like this AFM - U- TB- runners-valves (in Square inch values,and assuming 2 valves/runners getting flow)
US 4 - 7 - 5 - 3.5 - 4.5
US/euro combo 4 - 7 - 7 - 4 - 4.5
euro heads and US 4 - 7- 7 - 4 - 5
(the TB has a neck down and I used the narrowest part for both the euro and US TB. but , they are more like 2.7 vs 3.3 on the entrance, but the neck down is what i think you should be comparing to.)
In actuallity, many have extrude honed the runners with no luck. this change in TB was a HUGE change in hp. 242HP to the wheels vs 200 at the wheels!!!! 42hp!!!!
MK
the system looks like this AFM - U- TB- runners-valves (in Square inch values,and assuming 2 valves/runners getting flow)
US 4 - 7 - 5 - 3.5 - 4.5
US/euro combo 4 - 7 - 7 - 4 - 4.5
euro heads and US 4 - 7- 7 - 4 - 5
(the TB has a neck down and I used the narrowest part for both the euro and US TB. but , they are more like 2.7 vs 3.3 on the entrance, but the neck down is what i think you should be comparing to.)
In actuallity, many have extrude honed the runners with no luck. this change in TB was a HUGE change in hp. 242HP to the wheels vs 200 at the wheels!!!! 42hp!!!!
MK
Originally posted by ViribusUnits
Mark, did you try it with the US throtal body and Euro runners? Instead of Euro TB and runners.
When I measured out the system, the runners seemed to be like the bottle neck in the system. The TB seemed to be at adquite, but the runners seemed to be about 3/4 the size they could be. Thus I figured that unless you could make the runners bigger, there wasn't much point in increaseing the size of the TB.
Mark, did you try it with the US throtal body and Euro runners? Instead of Euro TB and runners.
When I measured out the system, the runners seemed to be like the bottle neck in the system. The TB seemed to be at adquite, but the runners seemed to be about 3/4 the size they could be. Thus I figured that unless you could make the runners bigger, there wasn't much point in increaseing the size of the TB.
10-31-2003, 06:14 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
pretty close. the S4 TB is around 3.5" diameter, but it has a slight neck down venturi to drive vacuum as does the euro. euro is 3.3 necked down to 3". I would say they are close. The Euro Ive measured closely, but the US I have only done a ball park. of course , the MAF is 3.5" diameter too on the US.
MK
MK
Originally posted by GoRideSno
FWIW the Euro TB is a larger diameter than my S4 TB.
Andy K
FWIW the Euro TB is a larger diameter than my S4 TB.
Andy K
10-31-2003, 06:17 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Just adding the euro intake will help the HP curve in a fantastic way!
no draw back. min torque was at at least the US version. however, after this min torque, the torque curve shoots up. (hp goes way up) (and max torque is higher too.)
mk
no draw back. min torque was at at least the US version. however, after this min torque, the torque curve shoots up. (hp goes way up) (and max torque is higher too.)
mk
Originally posted by Jessa
OK, speak slowly for me Putting a Euro TB and intake on my otherwise completely stock '84, or stock '82 will result in a power increase?
Is this the kind of thing that adds to peak power, but robs low-end torque, or can one expect overall improvement? Remeber, I'm asking about what happens when you add this to a stock vehicle.
OK, speak slowly for me
Putting a Euro TB and intake on my otherwise completely stock '84, or stock '82 will result in a power increase?Is this the kind of thing that adds to peak power, but robs low-end torque, or can one expect overall improvement? Remeber, I'm asking about what happens when you add this to a stock vehicle.
11-01-2003, 08:48 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
I have a set of Euro 1986 S2 (LH injection) plenum, runners and injector set for sale.......... no TB though.
I believe that the L-jetronic injectors will fit these runners.
I believe that the L-jetronic injectors will fit these runners.