mark kibort

yes, the euro intake on the US 4.5 will get you the 20-30 hp. you may want to get the fuel regs from an S4, but ive also heard that you can use one regulator (adjustable) and a damper (in place of the other stock fuel regulator), to increase fuel pressure. this is probably the best way. Scot Grahams car will be fitted this way.

As far as the cams, they are not that radically different. however, they do provide a good amount of increased duration and lift. the US cams were made for lower emissions, not power. they are clearly not optimal for HP. as my car went from 200 with headers and race exhaust, to 242. Now, keep in mind, that was on a 130,000 mile engine with farly low compression and a blown (but fixed with Barr's stop leak) headgasket. Ive seen some stock 84s put out 220 at the wheels with only headers.

mk

Jim bailey - 928 International

The old very brown 1980 ....believed to be stock USA 4.5 but with test pipe and Borla exhaust dynoed 11/02/03 194 hp @ 5,200 rpm and 225 ft lbs . Dennis it seems you have gained 15 ft pounds of torque but 38 HP thus far . My torque was maxed at 3,500 flat to 4,200 then dropped off , by 5,250 both were going down hill fast . At which rpm did you see the 232 HP ? I wonder how much of that is the headers ?

Weissach1982

Mark-
Well 20-30 is a very good jump, what do you think it would be with 85-86 manifolds and ADJ Reg, becuase thats about as far as I can go right now with my budget, i'm still in shcool.

About the 85-86 manifolds, does anyone have a dyno with those added on a car with some before and after tests?
Also, I've seen Huntley Racing Adjustable fuel pressure regulator, would that be a good choice?

My 82 car, the fuel pressure regulator is in the back near the firewall right and the damper in the front, then how come i see pictures with the ADJ regulator at the front ,does it matter where they are located? And was exactly does the damper do?

About the cams, have you ever visited WEB CAMS? I was going to have mine sent off to be grinded and welded to one of their offered specifications below:

Valve Lift: Duration in Degrees: DURATION @.050 IN DEGREES : Description
.398 233 216 Very broad power range for hot street engines. Price per set. $875.00

.442 240 222 Increased mid and upper end power. Price per set. $875.00

.471/.432 250/236 232/220 European profile. Price per set. $875.00

This what Web cams has quoted, I opted to go for the ''Very Broad Power range'', but I wasn't sure enough about rewelded camshafts to dish out $875.
Anyone ever had cams sent to these people, if so are they worth it?
Thanks,
Cory J.

Jadz928

The following link is the before/after dyno runs. My install included 85-86 manifolds, 3" free-flow catless exhaust specs , and ARRFPR. The car was an 80 US A/T w/60k miles.

Dyno Sheet - before/after

If one were to install the 85-86 manifolds to an early US 16v, you would experience minimal gain. Couple that with a free flow exhaust and that's optimal. The free-flo exhaust w/o the manifold install would be substantial, but not optimal considering the design the the early cast manifolds.

The ARRFPR is a good starting point if you plan do some major engine/intake/exhaust mods. Coupled w/a custom exhaust install, one would find nominal hp gain in adding the ARRFPR. Though you would be set up to avoid lean conditions thoughout engine upgrades.

mark kibort

fuel damper on the front is for smoothing out the pulsing pressure from the fuel pump. the regulator assures a constant pressure. the damper goes up front ,as this is the place the fuel lines attach to the engine. one damper on the rear and a fuel reg is the set up that is supposed to work, instead of having to buy TWO fuel regs for the back. be interesting to see if that fuel pressure reg up front instead of the damper is some kind of work around too.

MK

mark kibort

looks to be the same gain as what I saw with the headers on my 84 in the early stages. (we went from 175 to 188 for the headers,and another 12hp for the 3.5" exhaust and one borla) so, I guess the "real" headers and exhaust system from devek is worth about 20-25hp when starting with a bone stock system

sounds like the 85 exhaust manifolds and exhaust systems got you 15hp or so. pretty good.

Mk

PorKen

I got basically the same figures as Jadz928, 196 HP/218 TQ, with my '81 US, AT, 130K miles.

It has stock exhaust manifolds and pipes up to where the cat would have been, Flowmaster 50 in place of cat, 3" pipe back and AFPR.

Raising the fuel pressure to 43 PSI from stock 36 PSI gave 10 HP, torque was unchanged. For driveability, 41 PSI is the max that works with the oxygen sensor and the AFM bypass adjustment.

John Speake

I have now received another set of Euro intake parts. These are the last reasonably priced set I have been able to find.

They are all mechanically sound, but the runners and plenum need a good clean up as they have melted bonnet insulation on them.

The price is $450 carriage paid, as before. These cost me more to buy than the earlier sets.

I have already offered them to a couple of people who were on my waiting list, but as yet I have not received a reply from either. I will wait until the end of this week, and then offer them to the first reply

Anyone interested ?

Jon F

I got 1.2 horsepower and -5.3 ft/lbs from my Euro intake/32 US throttle body combo. I had to have my muffler re-welded on and there may be some restriction there, but I don't think it would have eaten 20-30 horsepower. The 13 hp discrepancy between Scot Graham's '82 car and mine might be entirely due to headers and exhaust. My guess is that the intake/throttle body alone is worth almost nothing. Mark's gains were most likely due to the cams and then fuel regulators that he added when he went from 200 to 230 and then 242 horsepower.

My air-fuel ratio was good, dropping from 13.5 at 3000 to 12.8 at 6000.

I have a better exhaust to put on, but I won't be dynoing the car again due to lack of funds.

Here's to hoping your results are better than mine.

mark kibort

wow, im stunned.

any chance that the vacuum advance was not working? you can check this with the timing light and do revs. you sould get it around 37degrees advanced at 3000rpm plus, with the vacuum attached. the euro throttle body is different as far as vaccum hookups.
Just trying to think about what could have gone wrong. I also cant imagine why you would not see better gains. Scots gains with just the throttle body and intake seemed to be substantial over with jus the headers and exhaust. however, it kills me we didnt do a baseline run!!

are you sure you were able to get full throttle too? (did you make sure the throttle body was maxed out at WOT) obviously , your 70% throttle switch was engaged, or you would have been way lean, and your fuel is in the right ball park. (probably worth turning the fuel regs up a 1/2 turn .)

Puzzled. we will be going back to the dyno with the fuel regs and will get the voltage and spark advance nailed down before hand too.

sure makes the eRAM look like a pretty good mod, if this is the way it is with the euro stuff. we got 10ftlbs more torque before the engine went way lean. (and the baselines before hand were mirror images of eachother)

somethings going on here , and Im puzzled. maybe the folks that talk about having headers to take advantage of the increased air , are on to something, as much as i have thought they are relatively independent.

By the way, your description says, " euro intake, but US throttle body" you dont have the US throttle body on there?? nahhhh (I saw the jpegs of your porting)

as far as my more controlled tests on the 4.7 liter US, I have a hard time imagining that the 82 cams, (not even the most radical) gave 30hp!! and none came from the intake. 200 headers race exhaust, add intake and cams, 231hp, and then tune at the dyno with fuel regs and eRAMs 243. (eRAMs looked to be good for 7hp on this test day)


MK

mark kibort

Here is the 4.7 with the euro intake and cams with the eRAM. the two baseline runs were with the eRAM on. the lower plot is when we removed the eRAM on the final run. (out of three runs at the Devek Dyno day about 4-5 years ago.)
Ill have to get a comparison of the other runs I did, but it looks like 250torque, and If I remember correctly, the HP was around 237ish.
I can get a clearer copy if anyone is interested in what the ole 4.7 will do with the euro stuff. keep in mind, this 4.7 was 135,000miles old and had quite a few DE events, and a few races on the engine. the headgasket was also blown slightly and patched with barrs stop leak. Hey, maybe thats the secret. Barrs stop leak is good for 20hp!
maybe the cams are the problem. hey, this brings up a great point. the 79 cams are almost the same duration as the euro cams. however, the 84 cams in the 4.7 are the suckey cams. are the 80-82 cams in the 4.5 liter have the same crappy cams as the US 84, or are they the old 4.5 1979 cams? maybe those cams are the problem!!!!

MK

Weissach1982

Well I recieved my parts yesterday. I'm getting ready to clean them up and put them and install them on my car. Now, what Jon F has stated has me worried. In turn, maybe I shouldn't be because my car's motor is in 100% shape with no flaw and less than 5k miles on complete rebuilt motor. So therefore with not a thing wrong with my car to begin with, nothing bad should happen when I install these parts w/o any Fuel Regs or headwork cams etc...right? I trust Mark's work on Scots car and he has helped me with a lot of questions.
I am going to put the parts on the car and hope for the best. If not, then I have one question. If you port the US ''U'' to meet the Euro TB size and the Euro intake parts just won't work right (some odd reason I don't know why they shouldn't,"Praying") will the US TB be ok to bolt back on to the car? I am a little nervous, but not enough to stop me from doing this to my car. If a mustang or camaro can have a simple TB change and gain 8-20plus hp, then what makes modding the 928 so much different other than its (mine) is 22 years old?
So, I'm hoping for the best results and maybe it was just a fluke with Jon's car who knows, I'll be sure though to get back to you on the results of my car.
Thanks for all your help and keep us posted,
Cory J.

Harpo

Cory
Are you going to dyno the car before and after? I have the parts too but I don't know if its worth putting them on after Jon F's results.
Mark

ViribusUnits

The 80-84 cams are CRAPPY,with just about the same duration.

The 78-79 are a bit better, almost as good as the Euros.

The Euro S2 is of course the best, but it's still pretty weak compared to the aftermarket chevy stuff.

It's in the WSM, if you want to look it up.

Jon F

I hope one of the rest of you who bought the S2 intake will dyno your cars before and after. It will at least give us an idea whether or not my car is an anomaly.