IcemanG17

Found the video from the 1st race.....fast forward to about 17:00 and listen.....its scary

Tom. M

The only unknown on this engine was how it ran before being pulled (swapped in a Euro 4.7 310hp engine).

IIRC...Adam pulled a few of the rod bearings to check for wear and they were all good when he did the oil pan mod (spacer, and OB internals). I'm still betting on a bad/stuck lifter......but he should pull the innards of the cooler out no matter... (or add the cooler lines-but he's running my old 82 rad..without the cooler ports....so he'd have to then add an external cooler)....

atb

Before installing the pan spacer, I pulled the 2/6 rod caps and took a look at the crank and bearings. The crank was fine, the bearings were definitely veterans but were in decent shape. I used new con rod nuts when I put it all back together.

On the noise, when I listened to the sound of the Estate pulling into the pits around 20:00, I'm definitely hearing a rod knock. I think the sound of my motor is different, although not by much, its more of a clack.

Thanks for posting the video and the input Brian, it all helps.

I think where I'm at is this:

1) Re-torque cam gears
2) Pull thermostatic valve out of the motor
3) Run car and add Swepco 502
4) Pray for silent running

Before I do #2, I think I'll pull the pressure switch assembly off the original 4.5L.

From what everyone is theorizing, any motor that didn't run an external oil cooler would not have the plunger and spring installed, correct?
If its all there in the 4.5L, then I'll skip #2.

Bill Ball

IF this motor did originally have an oil cooler and a thermostatic valve (and it sure looks like it may have based on the fact there were no plugs installed), and that valve was not removed, then it is relying on the bypass valve to open and provide oil to the main path into the oil filter. Maybe that CAN work just fine, but it depends on the bypass functioning. I can't find any documentation that the oil cooler was deleted for any years, although the PET does show a "radiator" with no mention of coolers as welll as one with an oil cooler and another with oil and tranny (for AT) for 83/84.

GregBBRD

No, you need to remove the thermostat and all the springs associated with the thermostat, for sure. I think you should also remove the bypass plunger and spring, to be sure that this plunger isn't sticking.

If some prior owner decided to fabricate a piece which replaced the thermostat and directed the oil to the oil cooler ports (common 911 thing) your oil is having a tough time getting to where it needs to go.

I'm still saying that the "increase" in lifter noise after the car ran for a few minutes is a bad sign...that would indicate that there is no oil getting to the cams/lifters.

Tom. M

He did complain about a leaking rear cam cover gasket earlier....so I do think oil is getting to the heads...but removing the bypass spring can't hurt...

Eric Buckley

There are 3 "valves" in this area. Two are behind the plugs that are located above the ports for the oil cooler. The other is located directly above the oil pressure sender. The valve above the oil pressure sender is the thermostatic valve. The valve behind the larger of the 2 plugs is the bypass valve and the valve behind the smaller plug is the pressure release valve. If you are not running an oil cooler, and have the oil cooler ports blocked off, then ONLY the pressure release valve should be installed. Listen to Greg, open it up and remove both the oil thermostat and the bypass valve.

Eric Buckley

Referring to the image below, parts 23, 24, 25 and 28, 29 must be removed if you are not running an oil cooler.

atb

Okay, swung by the shop just now (always get funny looks from the neighboring businesses when I show up in my suit and tie during the day) and pulled the oil pressure sender of the 4.5L. No thermostatic switch. Pulled the bypass (large) plug, no spring or plunger. Pulled the pressure relief valve cap, the spring and plunger were there.
So, thanks Eric, Greg Tom and Bill (and everyone else) I'll duplicate the same on my 4.7L before the next start up attempt and post the results.

atb

I guess the joke is on me on this one. Had some free time tonight to work on the 4.7L, so I pulled off the oil pressure sender (and received my gratuitous sleeve full of oil) and there was no thermostatic valve above it. I pulled the bypass plug and no spring or plunger.
So, the good news is that I didn't starve the motor for oil by capping off the oil cooler ports.
The bad news, I still have some serious lifter noise to contend with.
Back to plan "A" - warm it up and go with the swepco 52.

Podguy

Eric,

I am happy to stand corrected on this issue. When I first removed the cooler I checked with Renn List and was told to remove the thermostaic valve. Now maybe I was wrong in my understanding but I did remove the pressure sensor and some parts there. When I took the car for a test drive the oil pressure was very low. Before with the hoses in place - even though they were dripping - the oil pressure was good. When I put the pieces back in the oil pressure went back up and was fine since. The engine is low miles with only 44K so it was not an issue of other things causing the low oil pressure.

Now if someone can come up with the exact pieces to remove I will do it again. that is when I put the engine back in the car. Allthough I was planning on using the oil cooler now that I have tools to make new hoses.

As much of my research shows the cars with out the cooler hoses were the US 80 to 82 4.5 US cars. I have not seen to many Euro non S cars. Every US 78-79 that I have seen has oil cooler lines. THis would be consistent with the cheapening of the 80-82 US cars and with the 85 MPH speedometers and 15 inch rims. Dentist's wives were not expected to go 150 MPH.

Every US 4.7 car I have seen has oil cooler lines. The same is true with every 5.0 car I have seen.

S4ordie

Glad to hear the requisite missing pieces are, well, missing. Good luck with plan A

Bill Ball

On to Swepco 502! I'm interested to see if it works as a hair restorer too.

Eric Buckley

Dan: Greg mentioned earlier in the thread that indicated oil pressure may not mean what it seems. Perhaps this was happening in your car? An obstruction/restriction in the oil circuit will reduce flow and raise pressure. Flow is what is actually important. There is no good reason why the fully hot oil idle pressure should be much over 1 bar on a normally configured 928 engine. The drawing that I posted in post #83 above shows the parts involved. The way Porsche configures cars with no oil cooler is that only the plunger and spring behind the smaller plug are installed. The plunger and spring behind the larger plug is omitted, as well as the 3 parts comprising the oil thermostat. From what you say it sounds like you may have only removed the thermostast but not the bypass valve? Maybe you should try it with both removed? However, putting it back to the way it came from the factory is probably best of all, with new lines and all 3 oil valves installed.

My US 83MY car came factory with no oil cooler lines. I have since installed an oil cooler radiator and all associated parts.

S4ordie

Me too!