Norcal Lemons survives 1st track day!! RACE REPORT
11-09-2009, 03:42 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
11-09-2009, 05:45 PM
#32
Race Director
Thread Starter
You know that old saying, don't take a car on the track that you couldn't afford to burn to the ground and walk away from? Well, at LeMons, there's a reasonable chance that might actually happen! It's just part of the circus.
BTW, wanted to chime in to say that this 928 is totally bad-***. Totally legit at $250 and, even gutted, there's still enough Stuttgart in it to make it an absolute blast to drive. That 2:14 was tire and brake limited - with better brakes and tires, there easily a 2:12 in it. But what's more important is that just left in 3rd gear, the car should easily do low 20's all day long. As long as the Members Only crew doesn't abuse the tranny with lots of shifting and by spinning up that inside tire AND with a heathly dose of luck, I think they are going to be real contenders in addition to clear crowd favorites!
Cheers,
Dean
BTW, wanted to chime in to say that this 928 is totally bad-***. Totally legit at $250 and, even gutted, there's still enough Stuttgart in it to make it an absolute blast to drive. That 2:14 was tire and brake limited - with better brakes and tires, there easily a 2:12 in it. But what's more important is that just left in 3rd gear, the car should easily do low 20's all day long. As long as the Members Only crew doesn't abuse the tranny with lots of shifting and by spinning up that inside tire AND with a heathly dose of luck, I think they are going to be real contenders in addition to clear crowd favorites!
Cheers,
Dean
Since I drove the car for one session after Dean did his hot lap...I can attest to the complete LACK of brakes....were talking a shade of material then backing plates.....
The new racing porterfield brake pads will be installed this week...that should solve the braking issues.....were stuck with the tires, for at least this race...maybe we can source some larger wheels and tires for a later race....
I didn't notice any fumes when I was in the car.....but we weren't out for very long etiher
11-09-2009, 06:12 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
pads will make a huge difference out there. scots car has hit the 2:04s with the S brakes and 290rwhp. my version of the same car did about that time as well, all using pagid oranges. the '79 I ran for one race, had mitex, which were running the old hockey puck calipers. (pads the size of a silver dollar 
) that was a little spooky running 2:10s with those little brakes. lots of fade. Porterfield will make a HUGE difference so you can go real deep into the turns. Lots of trailbraking will be required with no gears to downshift to.
Certainly, 2:12s are possible.
a key take away, is to NEVER hit the track with a little skin of a pad left. way too much heat is generated and no insulation from that heat to the calipers. thick pads, even street pads, can work ok, even if they are not racing pads.
mk
) that was a little spooky running 2:10s with those little brakes. lots of fade. Porterfield will make a HUGE difference so you can go real deep into the turns. Lots of trailbraking will be required with no gears to downshift to.Certainly, 2:12s are possible.
a key take away, is to NEVER hit the track with a little skin of a pad left. way too much heat is generated and no insulation from that heat to the calipers. thick pads, even street pads, can work ok, even if they are not racing pads.
mk
11-09-2009, 10:44 PM
#36
Race Director
Thread Starter
Suspension and making the car run are NOT exempt....exhaust after the headers is free and fuel lines are free (& encourage to be replaced)..but the main fuel pump IS NOT EXEMPT....but the good news is our pump works just fine and the AFR's on the dyno are rock solid
I might upgrade the wheels-tires after this race and before Infineon in March, assuming we don't get crushed
11-10-2009, 02:51 AM
#37
Nordschleife Master
I would stay away from the KDWs on the track, go with the KDs instead.
But then again there are many other tires which have more grip than the KDWs.
Hell even the General Exclaim UHP tires had more grip.
But then again there are many other tires which have more grip than the KDWs.
Hell even the General Exclaim UHP tires had more grip.
11-10-2009, 04:10 AM
#38
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it is if its leaking, then it becomes a safety thing. and wouldnt you know it, the car does leak a bit back near the fuel tank. ill remove the cover and see whats up, we may need new flex lines around the pump.
Now, i just want to throw this out there and please dont take offense here people, i want to clarify the prioritys in the unconventional world of lemons. i understand where all you guys are coming from, professional and experienced racers, perfectionist and people who hate losing, etc. this race is not the same as a regular NASA/SCCA race, you have to play by a much different set of rules:
This is not a serious race
, cars do not need to be prepared to the utmost level, stop worrying about geting 2 more hp by doing something trival as tuning the ignition curve on the dyno for 4 hrs, or installing a $800 exhaust system when the near free system in the car works fine ( ok it doesnt sound fine but i will fix that, i mean come on you must have a great sound car)
this car may only have 190hp but the power-wieght is among the best there, and power is not everything.
stop wishing the car had the most uber bad *** big brakes possible when this already over engineered SUPERCAR has twice the factory braking power as all the ECONOMY cars and 25 yr old worn sports car that it will be competing with, the new pads we have are about the best you can get, we won lemons with them before and our previous car out braked everyone. they are handled.
stop worrying about minute whims of drag formed from a hole that was once filled with a foglamp. the car HAS to look like ****, its a Porsche 928 in a field of hondas, toyotas, and hyundais, people in this race, just like in real life get jelous that you have a nicer car, only in this world they can get their pitch forks out and kill it just because they want to and then they will squash it just to have fun which is #1 objective here. Remember that.
Stop Fretting about the possiblity of a vortex of hydrocarbons being blow into your helmet while traveling down the straightaway due to the purely cosmetic roof add on that will slow down probably the fastest car in the field an inmeasurable amount due to unpredictible traffic of beginner/unexperienced drivers.
Your eyes wll be burning just the same for the POS BMW E30 in front of you that is buring 1/2 quart of oil a lap and is pig rich making the the car 20seconds a lap slower than you, yet the asshat behind the wheel will not let you pass him, oh he knows you are there and he know you are faster than him, but in his mind its Just you and him, and if "that silly porsche that shouldnt be in this race, its a porsche thats cheating"! gets past him then he cant brag to his buddies back in the pits " man i totally held off that damn porsche bro, yeah he was trying to edge pass me but im way better than him, he was nothing. but i had to come in you know for oil every 20 laps"
and because there are idiots like that on the track there is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO way we are going to get a sub 2:40 lap time when we have to weave between the 140+ cars on the 3 miles of track. thats one car about every 110ft, but they will never be spaced out evenly an wouldnt you know they are all of the track so there is rarely a chance to follow the proper line safely. so who cares if the car can do 2:12 when a dozen people are going to jump in front of us every lap, if its faster than the v8olvo ( which it is) than we only need to worry about ourselves
now again sorry if this offends anyone, you guys that race regularly know way more than I on racing, i dont need to tell you how to drive. Yes most racing rules still apply here but we have to remove the edge of seriousness and just relax. thats what this race is about, having a good time and not worrying about how our mega car could have been better. in my experience Lemons racing is so un predictable you just have to roll with it and we are already way above the curve. also i know there is a diffence between safety prep and performance prep, im talking performace here, if a serious health issue arises, by all means it NEEDS to be mended immediately, nobody wants anyone to be harmed. But again if we play by their strange rules and have fun we will all be winners.
-Cheers
Wolff
11-10-2009, 08:55 AM
#40
Race Car
Now, i just want to throw this out there and please dont take offense here people, i want to clarify the prioritys in the unconventional world of lemons.
--
This is not a serious race, cars do not need to be prepared to the utmost level,
--
( ok it doesnt sound fine but i will fix that, i mean come on you must have a great sound car)
--
stop wishing the car had the most uber bad *** big brakes possible
--
stop worrying about minute whims of drag formed from a hole that was once filled with a foglamp. the car HAS to look like ****, its a Porsche 928 in a field of hondas, toyotas, and hyundais, people in this race, just like in real life get jelous that you have a nicer car, only in this world they can get their pitch forks out and kill it just because they want to and then they will squash it just to have fun which is #1 objective here. Remember that.
--
but in his mind its Just you and him, and if "that silly porsche that shouldnt be in this race, its a porsche thats cheating"! gets past him then he cant brag to his buddies back in the pits " man i totally held off that damn porsche bro, yeah he was trying to edge pass me but im way better than him, he was nothing. but i had to come in you know for oil every 20 laps"
--
but we have to remove the edge of seriousness and just relax. thats what this race is about, having a good time and not worrying about how our mega car could have been better.
--
nobody wants anyone to be harmed. But again if we play by their strange rules and have fun we will all be winners.
--
This is not a serious race
, cars do not need to be prepared to the utmost level, --
( ok it doesnt sound fine but i will fix that, i mean come on you must have a great sound car)
--
stop wishing the car had the most uber bad *** big brakes possible
--
stop worrying about minute whims of drag formed from a hole that was once filled with a foglamp. the car HAS to look like ****, its a Porsche 928 in a field of hondas, toyotas, and hyundais, people in this race, just like in real life get jelous that you have a nicer car, only in this world they can get their pitch forks out and kill it just because they want to and then they will squash it just to have fun which is #1 objective here. Remember that.
--
but in his mind its Just you and him, and if "that silly porsche that shouldnt be in this race, its a porsche thats cheating"! gets past him then he cant brag to his buddies back in the pits " man i totally held off that damn porsche bro, yeah he was trying to edge pass me but im way better than him, he was nothing. but i had to come in you know for oil every 20 laps"
--
but we have to remove the edge of seriousness and just relax. thats what this race is about, having a good time and not worrying about how our mega car could have been better.
--
nobody wants anyone to be harmed. But again if we play by their strange rules and have fun we will all be winners.
Thanks for the shot of perspective presented in a most humorous way!
11-10-2009, 11:32 AM
#42
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Richard Wolff - very good, very accurate LeMons rant!
Driving this car at the **** Freeze A Palooza will be very much like playing a video game with all the cheat codes...
Driving this car at the **** Freeze A Palooza will be very much like playing a video game with all the cheat codes...
11-10-2009, 02:00 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
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I have to say that this race is probably the best thing ever. Pure hilarity, especially the team names. I would love to see this baby firsthand. Keep on rockin it guys!
BTW, for anyone who is curious, "los cerdos voladores" means the flying pigs
BTW, for anyone who is curious, "los cerdos voladores" means the flying pigs
11-10-2009, 02:22 PM
#45
5th Gear
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Richard Wolff indeed has nailed it. Richard Doty is learning...
Yeah, we can bring an Uber-car with 18 x 9 wheels and huge tires, cup brakes and a perfect exterior (we rejected a car we have just because it looks so nice) and still be on budget and legal... But why try to knock off a 2:08 when all it will do is **** off the other teams.. With all those cars out there, it will be difficult to ever get a clean lap, ever. What it takes to win is a reliable car that can turn moderately quick times for 18 hours. Only once in the history of LeMons has a car that turned the fastest lap won. 1 in 19... not a good record. The race has been won by a car that turned the 32nd fastest time... think about it. The Shooting-Brake rear end is purely an attention getter. The people at LeMons are all about the weird and improbable.. The SB conversion will detract the judges from the rest of the car, and Wolff and I had fun with it... Win-Win.
So, we will bring a sorted 928 on 225 tires and go for it. As Wolff said: We are way ahead of the curve, with testing and a finishing/winning record that could be considered the best ever at LeMons. Most teams will bring crap-cans that have never even touched a track before. With Wolff (an experienced LeMons veteran with one win and zero penalties in 7ish hours of racing!) Doty, Anderson and Kibort, this car will be the one to beat. The big deal is clean driving and therefore no penalties. Our other team; the V8olvo and the CBR 1000 RR powered Geo Metro are, among others, the cars that will bring the toughest competition...
I hope some of you can come to the race and watch... LeMons is always fun
-Richard Pagel
Yeah, we can bring an Uber-car with 18 x 9 wheels and huge tires, cup brakes and a perfect exterior (we rejected a car we have just because it looks so nice) and still be on budget and legal... But why try to knock off a 2:08 when all it will do is **** off the other teams.. With all those cars out there, it will be difficult to ever get a clean lap, ever. What it takes to win is a reliable car that can turn moderately quick times for 18 hours. Only once in the history of LeMons has a car that turned the fastest lap won. 1 in 19... not a good record. The race has been won by a car that turned the 32nd fastest time... think about it. The Shooting-Brake rear end is purely an attention getter. The people at LeMons are all about the weird and improbable.. The SB conversion will detract the judges from the rest of the car, and Wolff and I had fun with it... Win-Win.
So, we will bring a sorted 928 on 225 tires and go for it. As Wolff said: We are way ahead of the curve, with testing and a finishing/winning record that could be considered the best ever at LeMons. Most teams will bring crap-cans that have never even touched a track before. With Wolff (an experienced LeMons veteran with one win and zero penalties in 7ish hours of racing!) Doty, Anderson and Kibort, this car will be the one to beat. The big deal is clean driving and therefore no penalties. Our other team; the V8olvo and the CBR 1000 RR powered Geo Metro are, among others, the cars that will bring the toughest competition...
I hope some of you can come to the race and watch... LeMons is always fun
-Richard Pagel