Holbert Brake upgrade project. Big red, without the red.
12-15-2008, 11:52 PM
#46
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Thread Starter
"duh" is also a word in the dictionary, but its not proper english.
12-16-2008, 12:01 AM
#47
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Thread Starter
Wow, what a 1st class project.
by the way, the spacers you had pictured here on this discussion were not used to space out the calipers. you had that nice aluminum block that was the adapting to the old single piston caliper mounting. what were those spacers you had pictured used for? was it just an example for me?
That engine in that 5 series looks scary. I bet it hauls!
mk
by the way, the spacers you had pictured here on this discussion were not used to space out the calipers. you had that nice aluminum block that was the adapting to the old single piston caliper mounting. what were those spacers you had pictured used for? was it just an example for me?
That engine in that 5 series looks scary. I bet it hauls!
mk
Mark,
Yes, 350mm The way I came up with the 350 was by using cardboard
disc templates of different diameters, 13", 13.25", 13.50", 13.75" etc,
I kept cutting away the caliper to a safe depth and checked the rotor dia
with the templates as I went. I had cut as far as I thought safe, measured
with the 13.75" template and called it a day.. FWIW, the link below is the
car it was done on.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm180/OC570/
Yes, 350mm The way I came up with the 350 was by using cardboard
disc templates of different diameters, 13", 13.25", 13.50", 13.75" etc,
I kept cutting away the caliper to a safe depth and checked the rotor dia
with the templates as I went. I had cut as far as I thought safe, measured
with the 13.75" template and called it a day.. FWIW, the link below is the
car it was done on.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm180/OC570/
12-16-2008, 02:29 AM
#48
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Mark
I am working on this up grade for my car. 965 rotors arrived today they look great at 322 mm they are only 18mm bigger than stock but all those holes are some cool.
Have you considered the caliper spacers that Lindsey Racing or the big three offer with their gt upgrade kits? They are machined from billet aluminium and have 2 accurate holes machined in them to accept the caliper bolts. I agree one solid spacer would be more ridgid than two individual spacers. I will probally machine my own spacers from billet aluminium If you can wait i will run an extra set when I run mine. Go with the stronger bolts and PLEASE don't use washers or lug nuts as caliper spacers thats just wrong.
On another note I ordered a Ferrari F-40 aluminium hat from Brembo to see if I could use it on my car to upgrade to 350mm discs It arrived and I can confirm the F-40 rotor hat from Brembo can not be used on a 928 the offset is completly wrong. Thats $350 I'll never get back. Mark A says F-50 hats fit but brembo doesn't list an F-50 kit so I thought I would try the F-40 but it does not fit Oh well I took one for the team
I am working on this up grade for my car. 965 rotors arrived today they look great at 322 mm they are only 18mm bigger than stock but all those holes are some cool.
Have you considered the caliper spacers that Lindsey Racing or the big three offer with their gt upgrade kits? They are machined from billet aluminium and have 2 accurate holes machined in them to accept the caliper bolts. I agree one solid spacer would be more ridgid than two individual spacers. I will probally machine my own spacers from billet aluminium If you can wait i will run an extra set when I run mine. Go with the stronger bolts and PLEASE don't use washers or lug nuts as caliper spacers thats just wrong.
On another note I ordered a Ferrari F-40 aluminium hat from Brembo to see if I could use it on my car to upgrade to 350mm discs It arrived and I can confirm the F-40 rotor hat from Brembo can not be used on a 928 the offset is completly wrong. Thats $350 I'll never get back. Mark A says F-50 hats fit but brembo doesn't list an F-50 kit so I thought I would try the F-40 but it does not fit Oh well I took one for the team
12-16-2008, 03:31 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Where did you get the rotors? Sunset?
I was going to use Linsey for, what i thought was the "spacers" , but what the turned out to be was the axial to radial conversion kit for the single piston calipers.
noone really makes a spacer kit as the big reds fit directly on the S4 hubs and the extra diameter is used by the 9mm thicker pad.
Where do we get the replacement longer bolts (9mm longer)? I would imagine the GTS bolts might be the right length for the project
Dont worry, worst case Ill have my friend machine some T6061 spacers with the .370" thickness and a 11.47" hole for a very tight fit for the spacers.
Mark
I was going to use Linsey for, what i thought was the "spacers" , but what the turned out to be was the axial to radial conversion kit for the single piston calipers.
noone really makes a spacer kit as the big reds fit directly on the S4 hubs and the extra diameter is used by the 9mm thicker pad.
Where do we get the replacement longer bolts (9mm longer)? I would imagine the GTS bolts might be the right length for the project
Dont worry, worst case Ill have my friend machine some T6061 spacers with the .370" thickness and a 11.47" hole for a very tight fit for the spacers.
Mark
Mark
I am working on this up grade for my car. 965 rotors arrived today they look great at 322 mm they are only 18mm bigger than stock but all those holes are some cool.
Have you considered the caliper spacers that Lindsey Racing or the big three offer with their gt upgrade kits? They are machined from billet aluminium and have 2 accurate holes machined in them to accept the caliper bolts. I agree one solid spacer would be more ridgid than two individual spacers. I will probally machine my own spacers from billet aluminium If you can wait i will run an extra set when I run mine. Go with the stronger bolts and PLEASE don't use washers or lug nuts as caliper spacers thats just wrong.
On another note I ordered a Ferrari F-40 aluminium hat from Brembo to see if I could use it on my car to upgrade to 350mm discs It arrived and I can confirm the F-40 rotor hat from Brembo can not be used on a 928 the offset is completly wrong. Thats $350 I'll never get back. Mark A says F-50 hats fit but brembo doesn't list an F-50 kit so I thought I would try the F-40 but it does not fit Oh well I took one for the team
I am working on this up grade for my car. 965 rotors arrived today they look great at 322 mm they are only 18mm bigger than stock but all those holes are some cool.
Have you considered the caliper spacers that Lindsey Racing or the big three offer with their gt upgrade kits? They are machined from billet aluminium and have 2 accurate holes machined in them to accept the caliper bolts. I agree one solid spacer would be more ridgid than two individual spacers. I will probally machine my own spacers from billet aluminium If you can wait i will run an extra set when I run mine. Go with the stronger bolts and PLEASE don't use washers or lug nuts as caliper spacers thats just wrong.
On another note I ordered a Ferrari F-40 aluminium hat from Brembo to see if I could use it on my car to upgrade to 350mm discs It arrived and I can confirm the F-40 rotor hat from Brembo can not be used on a 928 the offset is completly wrong. Thats $350 I'll never get back. Mark A says F-50 hats fit but brembo doesn't list an F-50 kit so I thought I would try the F-40 but it does not fit Oh well I took one for the team
12-16-2008, 04:39 AM
#50
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Mark, if you have trouble finding these try Olander in Sunnyvale -- they have saved my bacon on hard-to-find metric hardware more often than I can remember. http://www.olander.com It's hard to find stuff on their site, so call them or walk in.
12-16-2008, 12:45 PM
#51
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Mark
I was thinking about the easiest way to make the spacers. We only need to space the caliper 9mm or 0.354" which is very close to 3/8" or 0.375 We could use a piece of 3/8" X 1" 6061 aluminiumn flat bar drill and ream a couple of holes in it to match the hole pattern in the rotor and spindle. Thats about all we need to do for a spacer . I don't think the extra 0.021" thickness will hurt any thing The flat bar could be easily cut to shape ( with a band saw, jig saw or die grinder if necessary)
I reread the thread and now realize you were only using the lug nut spacers to mock up your set up and you had no intention of running the car like that.
I was thinking about the easiest way to make the spacers. We only need to space the caliper 9mm or 0.354" which is very close to 3/8" or 0.375 We could use a piece of 3/8" X 1" 6061 aluminiumn flat bar drill and ream a couple of holes in it to match the hole pattern in the rotor and spindle. Thats about all we need to do for a spacer . I don't think the extra 0.021" thickness will hurt any thing The flat bar could be easily cut to shape ( with a band saw, jig saw or die grinder if necessary)
I reread the thread and now realize you were only using the lug nut spacers to mock up your set up and you had no intention of running the car like that.
12-16-2008, 01:29 PM
#52
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Mark:
FWIW, I have made these spacers a number of times, most recently to mount F50 calipers for 332mm rotors on my GTS. If you have your width measurement ready, I would be happy to make you the 4 spacers. I imagine it would take a little less than an hour to make all four, that is with no beer/BS breaks :^)
With regards to the bolts, the problem with finding them is the 1.5 pitch. I have (4) 85mm long bolts that came with my calipers, but needed longer ones for the 332mm rotors. You are welcome to these bolts if long enough. FWIW, I found a good supply for long 12X1.5 SHCS at Fabory:
FABORY Grand Rapids
8715 Byron Commerce Road
Byron Center SW, MI
USA, 49315
Phone
+1 616 583 14 56
Toll Free
+1 800 253 60 72
Fax
+1 616 583 14 57
E-mail
sales.grandrapids@fabory.com
Fabory has minimums, box of 10 for the SHCS's that I purchased. Hmmm, I wonder what I did with the other six 100mm SHCS bolts ???
Please feel free to contact me via e-mail, if you like:
jmorton@morton-engr.com
Enjoy.
FWIW, I have made these spacers a number of times, most recently to mount F50 calipers for 332mm rotors on my GTS. If you have your width measurement ready, I would be happy to make you the 4 spacers. I imagine it would take a little less than an hour to make all four, that is with no beer/BS breaks :^)
With regards to the bolts, the problem with finding them is the 1.5 pitch. I have (4) 85mm long bolts that came with my calipers, but needed longer ones for the 332mm rotors. You are welcome to these bolts if long enough. FWIW, I found a good supply for long 12X1.5 SHCS at Fabory:
FABORY Grand Rapids
8715 Byron Commerce Road
Byron Center SW, MI
USA, 49315
Phone
+1 616 583 14 56
Toll Free
+1 800 253 60 72
Fax
+1 616 583 14 57
sales.grandrapids@fabory.com
Fabory has minimums, box of 10 for the SHCS's that I purchased. Hmmm, I wonder what I did with the other six 100mm SHCS bolts ???
Please feel free to contact me via e-mail, if you like:
jmorton@morton-engr.com
Enjoy.
12-16-2008, 01:59 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Jim, Thats very generous of you!
I might take you up on the GTS studs as they might just work. is that 85mm for the entire bolt including the head? if so, its not much longer than the stock S4 bolts that are around 81mm (edit: 82.13mm including the bolt head). I think we need to be the same thread depth in the hub mount area, no?
as far as the spacers, so you are thinking bar stock to go from one hole to the other, so 2 spacers would be needed, right? as long as the holes are on the same plane and not angled, that should work well too.
I guess the only other issue is the grinding of the calipers to make them fit the arc of the larger rotor. Then, we will give it a shot! If i can get this stuff on the car by jan 1, i can test it at Thunderhill for a free SCCA Racer test day on the 4th.
mk
Mark:
FWIW, I have made these spacers a number of times, most recently to mount F50 calipers for 332mm rotors on my GTS. If you have your width measurement ready, I would be happy to make you the 4 spacers. I imagine it would take a little less than an hour to make all four, that is with no beer/BS breaks :^)
With regards to the bolts, the problem with finding them is the 1.5 pitch. I have (4) 85mm long bolts that came with my calipers, but needed longer ones for the 332mm rotors. You are welcome to these bolts if long enough. FWIW, I found a good supply for long 12X1.5 SHCS at Fabory:
FABORY Grand Rapids
8715 Byron Commerce Road
Byron Center SW, MI
USA, 49315
Phone
+1 616 583 14 56
Toll Free
+1 800 253 60 72
Fax
+1 616 583 14 57
E-mail
sales.grandrapids@fabory.com
Fabory has minimums, box of 10 for the SHCS's that I purchased. Hmmm, I wonder what I did with the other six 100mm SHCS bolts ???
Please feel free to contact me via e-mail, if you like:
jmorton@morton-engr.com
Enjoy.
FWIW, I have made these spacers a number of times, most recently to mount F50 calipers for 332mm rotors on my GTS. If you have your width measurement ready, I would be happy to make you the 4 spacers. I imagine it would take a little less than an hour to make all four, that is with no beer/BS breaks :^)
With regards to the bolts, the problem with finding them is the 1.5 pitch. I have (4) 85mm long bolts that came with my calipers, but needed longer ones for the 332mm rotors. You are welcome to these bolts if long enough. FWIW, I found a good supply for long 12X1.5 SHCS at Fabory:
FABORY Grand Rapids
8715 Byron Commerce Road
Byron Center SW, MI
USA, 49315
Phone
+1 616 583 14 56
Toll Free
+1 800 253 60 72
Fax
+1 616 583 14 57
sales.grandrapids@fabory.com
Fabory has minimums, box of 10 for the SHCS's that I purchased. Hmmm, I wonder what I did with the other six 100mm SHCS bolts ???
Please feel free to contact me via e-mail, if you like:
jmorton@morton-engr.com
Enjoy.
12-16-2008, 02:02 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks!
I hadnt heard of them, as i used the Mr Metric, when i was trying to find those short metric bolts for the flywheel that were a different pitch than the stock crank has. they ended up being hex heads and BARELY fit the socket in the configuration around the crank mounting.
mk
I hadnt heard of them, as i used the Mr Metric, when i was trying to find those short metric bolts for the flywheel that were a different pitch than the stock crank has. they ended up being hex heads and BARELY fit the socket in the configuration around the crank mounting.
mk
Mark, if you have trouble finding these try Olander in Sunnyvale -- they have saved my bacon on hard-to-find metric hardware more often than I can remember. http://www.olander.com It's hard to find stuff on their site, so call them or walk in.
12-16-2008, 02:20 PM
#55
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Mark:
Bolts are 85mm grip length, i.e. working length head shoulder to tip of threaded end.
Yes, 2 spacers per caliper, turned on a lathe for squareness/parallelism. Can make them out of 2024-T351 Alum., CR Mild Steel, or Ti. Sorry, no stainless on hand...
FWIW, I've always made the spacers a little long, then trimmed them down to setting the caliper so that the pad right is just past the edge of the rotor...
Bolts are 85mm grip length, i.e. working length head shoulder to tip of threaded end.
Yes, 2 spacers per caliper, turned on a lathe for squareness/parallelism. Can make them out of 2024-T351 Alum., CR Mild Steel, or Ti. Sorry, no stainless on hand...
FWIW, I've always made the spacers a little long, then trimmed them down to setting the caliper so that the pad right is just past the edge of the rotor...
12-16-2008, 02:31 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Jim, those bolts will be perfect then!
so, do you make the spacers at 3/8" so that they are about .5mm too pushed out? and then see about the tigher arc probaby meeting the rotor perfectly at the ends i would imagine.
Lets do it. Let me know and Ill get those 965 rotors ordered up from sunset.
Ill bring over lunch or beers or something!
Mark
so, do you make the spacers at 3/8" so that they are about .5mm too pushed out? and then see about the tigher arc probaby meeting the rotor perfectly at the ends i would imagine.
Lets do it. Let me know and Ill get those 965 rotors ordered up from sunset.
Ill bring over lunch or beers or something!
Mark
Mark:
Bolts are 85mm grip length, i.e. working length head shoulder to tip of threaded end.
Yes, 2 spacers per caliper, turned on a lathe for squareness/parallelism. Can make them out of 2024-T351 Alum., CR Mild Steel, or Ti. Sorry, no stainless on hand...
FWIW, I've always made the spacers a little long, then trimmed them down to setting the caliper so that the pad right is just past the edge of the rotor...
Bolts are 85mm grip length, i.e. working length head shoulder to tip of threaded end.
Yes, 2 spacers per caliper, turned on a lathe for squareness/parallelism. Can make them out of 2024-T351 Alum., CR Mild Steel, or Ti. Sorry, no stainless on hand...
FWIW, I've always made the spacers a little long, then trimmed them down to setting the caliper so that the pad right is just past the edge of the rotor...
12-16-2008, 02:57 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
Thanks!
I hadnt heard of them, as i used the Mr Metric, when i was trying to find those short metric bolts for the flywheel that were a different pitch than the stock crank has. they ended up being hex heads and BARELY fit the socket in the configuration around the crank mounting.
mk
I hadnt heard of them, as i used the Mr Metric, when i was trying to find those short metric bolts for the flywheel that were a different pitch than the stock crank has. they ended up being hex heads and BARELY fit the socket in the configuration around the crank mounting.
mk
12-16-2008, 03:41 PM
#58
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Thread Starter
12-16-2008, 03:46 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
