Holbert Brake upgrade project. Big red, without the red.
12-24-2008, 02:35 AM
#91
Drifting
mark
do a couple laps on these, then wash the car, let it dry, wash it again some time down the line, let it dry.....you will have massive rust rings around the rotors.
I am glad you finally got the rotors, you can always in a few months time or whatever just buy the GTS big black calipers and their larger pads to complete the upgrade, otherwise its really a bit shadetree for me in all honesty. Sure the rotors are larger and the torque will be greater as the contact point is farther from the hub, but i think you really need to reconsider getting the actual big black calipers and pads.
do a couple laps on these, then wash the car, let it dry, wash it again some time down the line, let it dry.....you will have massive rust rings around the rotors.
I am glad you finally got the rotors, you can always in a few months time or whatever just buy the GTS big black calipers and their larger pads to complete the upgrade, otherwise its really a bit shadetree for me in all honesty. Sure the rotors are larger and the torque will be greater as the contact point is farther from the hub, but i think you really need to reconsider getting the actual big black calipers and pads.
12-24-2008, 02:45 AM
#93
Nordschleife Master
the inner area of the pad is hardly worth the extra $1000 to upgrade. IN fact, i believe that the area separating the hub from the disc /rotor contact area is useful in cooling the rotor, and transfering less heat to the hub.why do you think all real racing brake systems have thinner and if any larger, longer pads? The GTS pads are the largest pads available in thickness, and I dont know how usefull that is in a racing situation, but i feel confident that when you look at the other racing brakes available, you suddenly see length might be more important.
mk
The guys you called to get those rotors for so cheap..... you know the place ive told you to call for damn knows how long.......you finally called them and ordered them and you realize its the real deal no?
Well call them and get the price on the GTS calipers. LAST I CHECKED, (which was about a year ago) The calipers were $323 each, NOT $500!
Pads on a race car are replaced all the time so i wouldnt even take into account that cost, although do it if you must.
Anyway, youve already got the rotors, your halfway there.
Besides your calipers look like a dog do-do ed on em and then they were baked in the over
Treat yourself, just do it, if you need better brakes, PORSCHE ALREADY ENGINEERED THE WHOLE THING FOR YOU!
Sorry, i dont think you can come up with a better solution then they can> I know i sure as hell cant thats why i buy only factory parts.
Your concern about the cost is fine, but the $650 you will spend on the calipers can be broken down into 10 years of racing, those calipers you have now are destined to have to be rebuilt at some point, and besides you can resell the caliper cores to those that dont know how cheap the NEW GTS calipers are. Those people who I dont tell mainly. What do you see S4 calipers sell for on Ebay, I think they are AT LEAST $300 for the pair, even as a core, possibly $400. THINK ABOUT IT
12-24-2008, 02:47 AM
#94
Rennlist Member
Maybe he just wants to see how far the "Holbert brakes" will go before they die a natural death.
Frankly, I see the sense in Mark's approach(e.g. not replacing perfectly good calipers) and frankly, I'm taking a similar approach with my brakes. I've had my upgrade in the form of S4 brakes sitting on the shelf for a couple years. Thing is, my rotors are fine... bit of a ridge showing but good for a while. They work fine, as long as I manage the heat. I'd love an upgrade but IMHO it would be a waste to toss rotors and pads that have so much life left in them -- yet are worn enough that nobody would be interested in them.
12-24-2008, 02:50 AM
#95
Nordschleife Master
Who cares if he gets a rust ring? It's a race car. Look at professional race cars, and the current trend in today's brake pads. The calipers and pads are further from the hub, narrower, and longer (in the case of most 6-piston calipers) than the Big Reds of 15 years ago. Most pro race cars have a huge hat and an even narrower rotor than Mark's, but the true advantage comes from more pad surface area at the perimeter of the larger rotors.
The HUB does not rust if its painted.
You see that pic you posted of the hub? thats aluminum and coated and will not rust regardless. You also see how that massive pad comes all the way to that machined hub? That means that THE ENTIRE SURFACE of the iron rotor is in contact with the pad, that also means that when surface rust appears (as it always will when you get water on it) it will be removed the first time you apply the brakes. That small bit of rust will be removed as soon as you make maybe 10 revolutions under braking and its completely gone. 10 revolutions is probably 10-15 feet BTW. You would remove the surface rust backing out of your driveway or backing out of the trailer under braking.
THE HUB WILL NOT RUST, THE PORTION OF THE DISC WHICH IS NOT IN CONTACT WITH THE PAD WILL, THIS IS THE RING I AM REFERRING TO. JUST WAIT 2 CAR WASHES AND YOU WILL SEE
12-24-2008, 02:51 AM
#96
Nordschleife Master
Could have done without the visual... but you're right.
When you're racing on a shoe string, those $ can mean the difference between having x racing weekends in a season or x-1. Function over form. A little bit of rust means squat -- if anything, he'll end up with less unsprung weight as the rust flakes off.
Maybe he just wants to see how far the "Holbert brakes" will go before they die a natural death.
Frankly, I see the sense in Mark's approach(e.g. not replacing perfectly good calipers) and frankly, I'm taking a similar approach with my brakes. I've had my upgrade in the form of S4 brakes sitting on the shelf for a couple years. Thing is, my rotors are fine... bit of a ridge showing but good for a while. They work fine, as long as I manage the heat. I'd love an upgrade but IMHO it would be a waste to toss rotors and pads that have so much life left in them -- yet are worn enough that nobody would be interested in them.
When you're racing on a shoe string, those $ can mean the difference between having x racing weekends in a season or x-1. Function over form. A little bit of rust means squat -- if anything, he'll end up with less unsprung weight as the rust flakes off.
Maybe he just wants to see how far the "Holbert brakes" will go before they die a natural death.
Frankly, I see the sense in Mark's approach(e.g. not replacing perfectly good calipers) and frankly, I'm taking a similar approach with my brakes. I've had my upgrade in the form of S4 brakes sitting on the shelf for a couple years. Thing is, my rotors are fine... bit of a ridge showing but good for a while. They work fine, as long as I manage the heat. I'd love an upgrade but IMHO it would be a waste to toss rotors and pads that have so much life left in them -- yet are worn enough that nobody would be interested in them.
seems allot of people neglect this simple fact, or just simply don't think of it.
Also if $300 cant be reasoned into your racing budget (on a part that will last the lifetime of the car) i dont think you should be racing
Point is, I see some issues with this idea, it may work fine 99,999 times out of 100,000, but why take the unnecessary risk.
I wont comment on the pro's of the GTS calipers anymore, if you dont get it you dont get it and i wont waste my breath.
All other comments i will respond to if they are reasonable....actually unreasonable comments are even more fun to respond to
12-24-2008, 02:59 AM
#97
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ryan, i didnt get them from there as i thougth those were the zimmermans which i do have some experience with (very good by the way) for a little more, i could get genuine porsche which buys a little extra. (nice paint on the hub area )
So for new calipers, not needed, i can spend another $700 and have what, a set up that uses pads and does something i dont believe is benificial for racing? Also, pad cost is more for the big reds.
As far as the rust ring goes, most every single top solution for race cars has this kind of .5" space between the hub and the pad contact area, leaving exposed rotor areas.
take a look. By the way, stoptech Is one of the top braking systems in the racing world right now. when they mount their system to a 14" rotor, they use the S4 pads in their calipers of the same size. notice the gap below the pads. I dont think anyone has voiced a concern of the "rust ring".
Sure, my rotors look like crap, but those could be painted if i cared what my calipers looked like. Its a race car and has stickers all over it. IM trying to make it look a little better, but the need for performance has its compromizes.
mk
)So for new calipers, not needed, i can spend another $700 and have what, a set up that uses pads and does something i dont believe is benificial for racing? Also, pad cost is more for the big reds.
As far as the rust ring goes, most every single top solution for race cars has this kind of .5" space between the hub and the pad contact area, leaving exposed rotor areas.
take a look. By the way, stoptech Is one of the top braking systems in the racing world right now. when they mount their system to a 14" rotor, they use the S4 pads in their calipers of the same size. notice the gap below the pads. I dont think anyone has voiced a concern of the "rust ring".
Sure, my rotors look like crap, but those could be painted if i cared what my calipers looked like. Its a race car and has stickers all over it. IM trying to make it look a little better, but the need for performance has its compromizes.
mk
MARK
The guys you called to get those rotors for so cheap..... you know the place ive told you to call for damn knows how long.......you finally called them and ordered them and you realize its the real deal no?
Well call them and get the price on the GTS calipers. LAST I CHECKED, (which was about a year ago) The calipers were $323 each, NOT $500!
Pads on a race car are replaced all the time so i wouldnt even take into account that cost, although do it if you must.
Anyway, youve already got the rotors, your halfway there.
Besides your calipers look like a dog do-do ed on em and then they were baked in the over
Treat yourself, just do it, if you need better brakes, PORSCHE ALREADY ENGINEERED THE WHOLE THING FOR YOU!
Sorry, i dont think you can come up with a better solution then they can> I know i sure as hell cant thats why i buy only factory parts.
Your concern about the cost is fine, but the $650 you will spend on the calipers can be broken down into 10 years of racing, those calipers you have now are destined to have to be rebuilt at some point, and besides you can resell the caliper cores to those that dont know how cheap the NEW GTS calipers are. Those people who I dont tell mainly. What do you see S4 calipers sell for on Ebay, I think they are AT LEAST $300 for the pair, even as a core, possibly $400. THINK ABOUT IT
The guys you called to get those rotors for so cheap..... you know the place ive told you to call for damn knows how long.......you finally called them and ordered them and you realize its the real deal no?
Well call them and get the price on the GTS calipers. LAST I CHECKED, (which was about a year ago) The calipers were $323 each, NOT $500!
Pads on a race car are replaced all the time so i wouldnt even take into account that cost, although do it if you must.
Anyway, youve already got the rotors, your halfway there.
Besides your calipers look like a dog do-do ed on em and then they were baked in the over
Treat yourself, just do it, if you need better brakes, PORSCHE ALREADY ENGINEERED THE WHOLE THING FOR YOU!
Sorry, i dont think you can come up with a better solution then they can> I know i sure as hell cant thats why i buy only factory parts.
Your concern about the cost is fine, but the $650 you will spend on the calipers can be broken down into 10 years of racing, those calipers you have now are destined to have to be rebuilt at some point, and besides you can resell the caliper cores to those that dont know how cheap the NEW GTS calipers are. Those people who I dont tell mainly. What do you see S4 calipers sell for on Ebay, I think they are AT LEAST $300 for the pair, even as a core, possibly $400. THINK ABOUT IT
12-24-2008, 03:03 AM
#98
Nordschleife Master
Ryan, i didnt get them from there as i thougth those were the zimmermans which i do have some experience with (very good by the way) for a little more, i could get genuine porsche which buys a little extra. (nice paint on the hub area )
So for new calipers, not needed, i can spend another $700 and have what, a set up that uses pads and does something i dont believe is benificial for racing? Also, pad cost is more for the big reds.
As far as the rust ring goes, most every single top solution for race cars has this kind of .5" space between the hub and the pad contact area, leaving exposed rotor areas.
take a look. By the way, stoptech Is one of the top braking systems in the racing world right now. when they mount their system to a 14" rotor, they use the S4 pads in their calipers of the same size. notice the gap below the pads. I dont think anyone has voiced a concern of the "rust ring".
Sure, my rotors look like crap, but those could be painted if i cared what my calipers looked like. Its a race car and has stickers all over it. IM trying to make it look a little better, but the need for performance has its compromizes.
mk
)So for new calipers, not needed, i can spend another $700 and have what, a set up that uses pads and does something i dont believe is benificial for racing? Also, pad cost is more for the big reds.
As far as the rust ring goes, most every single top solution for race cars has this kind of .5" space between the hub and the pad contact area, leaving exposed rotor areas.
take a look. By the way, stoptech Is one of the top braking systems in the racing world right now. when they mount their system to a 14" rotor, they use the S4 pads in their calipers of the same size. notice the gap below the pads. I dont think anyone has voiced a concern of the "rust ring".
Sure, my rotors look like crap, but those could be painted if i cared what my calipers looked like. Its a race car and has stickers all over it. IM trying to make it look a little better, but the need for performance has its compromizes.
mk
I thought you bought Factory rotors? FACTORY ROTORS ARE NOT ZIMMERMAN.
The place i am referring to is in Oregon and they sell only things that come in boxes that say "PORSCHE"
They are also ......... $151 per rotor
As for pads yes they are more due to the fact that they were only fitted on like 2 models. But they are maybe $50 a set more expensive, THEY ARE 30% plus larger though
As for stoptech, they use different piston diameters, they are very well engineered. I dont know why you keep carrying on about S4 are same as F50 and this and that. Your using the same calipers and the same pads, how can this really be labeled an upgrade.
ANYWAY its your car, clearly we do things very differently and thats fine, but you need to understand my points, but frankly i usually have to tell you about a half dozen times before you get it, for instance the rotors and some other things in regards to this whole front braking issue and 965 rotors Vs 993 rotors and so on. I try to help, but for whatever reason i have to state the same thing more then a few times before you get the point i was trying to make all along. That is frustrating and as such i wont comment further.
All that aside i hope they give you the desired outcome your seeking
Good luck
12-24-2008, 03:06 AM
#99
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
exactly! stoptech and others could have made their "red" St40s with GTS pads, but elected to use a narrower pad at the outer diameter. I think you are living in the 10 year old racing past Ryan. very few race cars today use the larger GTS pad. Hmmm, wonder why? maybe we could be on to something to put the pad further out in the radius and keep the heat away from the hub. Of course, as was mentioned, the pads are getting longer not thicker today in 2008+.
Who cares if he gets a rust ring? It's a race car. Look at professional race cars, and the current trend in today's brake pads. The calipers and pads are further from the hub, narrower, and longer (in the case of most 6-piston calipers) than the Big Reds of 15 years ago. Most pro race cars have a huge hat and an even narrower rotor than Mark's, but the true advantage comes from more pad surface area at the perimeter of the larger rotors.
12-24-2008, 03:15 AM
#100
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ryan. Thanks for the lead. I blew that deal then. I only paid a little more than that, but thougth the lead was for zimmerman rotors. Next time, hopefully at the end of the season, ill calll sunset. Thanks again for that!
Now, sure they are $50 more (GTS , TT pads) but thats 4 times a year! wast of $200 in my book, near 5% of my entire racing budget for the season.
You got to realize something. I think one of the reasons I get the most amount of bang for the buck is because i make sure i get the most bang for the buck!
that $650 in calipers could be spent for some tuning time, or to service those blown out koni shocks, or other things that will make the car go faster.
you talk about the 30% more surface area! Ryan, is at the bottom of the pad, and is greatly less effective than material at the top. there is even a pad like the big red that fits a big red "like" caliper that just has a tab of material, probably to keep the rust down in that area. the braking force in that area is much less than in the other areas of the rotor toward the outside. again, Ferrari, and most race teams DONT use a pad like the GTS pad. If it made sense to use one, dont you think they would? Stoptech, one of the newer players in this market has created their entire product line around the S4 928 pad. I wonder why? I have a feeling that the larger rotor and keeping the heat off the hub with a gap between pad/rotor contact area and hub is one of the reasons. and yes, its lighter too!
Now, sure they are $50 more (GTS , TT pads) but thats 4 times a year! wast of $200 in my book, near 5% of my entire racing budget for the season.
You got to realize something. I think one of the reasons I get the most amount of bang for the buck is because i make sure i get the most bang for the buck!
that $650 in calipers could be spent for some tuning time, or to service those blown out koni shocks, or other things that will make the car go faster.
you talk about the 30% more surface area! Ryan, is at the bottom of the pad, and is greatly less effective than material at the top. there is even a pad like the big red that fits a big red "like" caliper that just has a tab of material, probably to keep the rust down in that area
. the braking force in that area is much less than in the other areas of the rotor toward the outside. again, Ferrari, and most race teams DONT use a pad like the GTS pad. If it made sense to use one, dont you think they would? Stoptech, one of the newer players in this market has created their entire product line around the S4 928 pad. I wonder why? I have a feeling that the larger rotor and keeping the heat off the hub with a gap between pad/rotor contact area and hub is one of the reasons. and yes, its lighter too!WAIT WAIT WAIT
I thought you bought Factory rotors? FACTORY ROTORS ARE NOT ZIMMERMAN.
The place i am referring to is in Oregon and they sell only things that come in boxes that say "PORSCHE"
They are also ......... $151 per rotor
As for pads yes they are more due to the fact that they were only fitted on like 2 models. But they are maybe $50 a set more expensive, THEY ARE 30% plus larger though
I thought you bought Factory rotors? FACTORY ROTORS ARE NOT ZIMMERMAN.
The place i am referring to is in Oregon and they sell only things that come in boxes that say "PORSCHE"
They are also ......... $151 per rotor
As for pads yes they are more due to the fact that they were only fitted on like 2 models. But they are maybe $50 a set more expensive, THEY ARE 30% plus larger though
12-24-2008, 03:15 AM
#101
Nordschleife Master
also, i get what your main objective here is, basically you just want to change the contact point of the pad to the rotor so by going with a larger rotor you can have a little bit more leverage. Such as the case when you use a longer braker bar you gain more torque.
Thats all well and good, but i see this theory as only going half way. I think its honestly a half assed brake upgrade honestly. And i dont think the larger rotor with greater heat sink capability and the leverage point is even 50% in the idea that going to the GTS setup is an UPRGADE, so i dont think your even halfway there. With the calipers ....... well you know already the differences
THAT ALL BEING SAID, i do still think that as many have said the GTS brakes are not the be all end all of brakes, it maybe even questionable wether or not there is any significant increase in braking efficency over S4 brakes. BUT if your going to do an upgrade, i dont know why you do this. I dont see why you either just leave it be, or use what Porsche engineered.
Thats all well and good, but i see this theory as only going half way. I think its honestly a half assed brake upgrade honestly. And i dont think the larger rotor with greater heat sink capability and the leverage point is even 50% in the idea that going to the GTS setup is an UPRGADE, so i dont think your even halfway there. With the calipers ....... well you know already the differences
THAT ALL BEING SAID, i do still think that as many have said the GTS brakes are not the be all end all of brakes, it maybe even questionable wether or not there is any significant increase in braking efficency over S4 brakes. BUT if your going to do an upgrade, i dont know why you do this. I dont see why you either just leave it be, or use what Porsche engineered.
12-24-2008, 03:17 AM
#102
Nordschleife Master
12-24-2008, 03:29 AM
#103
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
you cant be serious!
the entire reason for the brake upgrade IS the larger diameter. Its the basic and fundamental premise for the reason all the top brake manufacturers are so sucessfull making more capable braking systems! more mass, more leverage, and better heat dissapating capabilities. Why dont they use the taller pad? the inner area doesnt do much. proof...... no one uses the GTS type pad, except the GTS and 993TT. Most all race cars today use something like this. and by the way, look at the gap between hub and the bottom of the pad.
Again, the stoptech is the most popular brake package of all race systems today. the ST40 system IS our S4 brakes with a similar caliper and the exact same pad. It does not use the GTS pad. They run it on 13 or 14" rotors. below shows the gap again of their 6 pot calipers!
Now, how can you say i have not reached "even 50%" of the GTS brakes. you admit that most of the braking forces are at the outer diameter and all i have sacraficed is 1/2" at the bottom of the pad. rotor is the same, calipers are plenty capable, so I would venure to say with the proper pad it could be dead nuts equal. again, all these manufacturers could use the larger pad, but THEY DONT!!! Its all about diameter and pad materials. Ive always been a big fan of the Stock S4 brakes. I only recently exceeded the perforamance of them. I think i have more racing days on the stock equiped 928 than anyone in the world, and as soon as I put the stroker in , trying to decel from 135mph vs 125mph into a hair pin, proved to me that the S4 brakes had met their match. I couldnt get the car to slow down fast enough. A brand new pad helped but it was not enough. Many of the guys that have made similar changes in rotor diameter, and not pad size have seen very similar results. I trust that this will help braking on a few different levels. plus they look great!
"Half assed" brake upgrade? is stoptech St40 as shown above , "half assed "? These are identical , without the 2 piece rotor, use the same pad, have the same size caliper and the same sized rotor. PLUS, my calipers are brembo if you are into brand names. Go Big browns!
Mk
the entire reason for the brake upgrade IS the larger diameter. Its the basic and fundamental premise for the reason all the top brake manufacturers are so sucessfull making more capable braking systems! more mass, more leverage, and better heat dissapating capabilities. Why dont they use the taller pad? the inner area doesnt do much. proof...... no one uses the GTS type pad, except the GTS and 993TT. Most all race cars today use something like this. and by the way, look at the gap between hub and the bottom of the pad.
Again, the stoptech is the most popular brake package of all race systems today. the ST40 system IS our S4 brakes with a similar caliper and the exact same pad. It does not use the GTS pad. They run it on 13 or 14" rotors. below shows the gap again of their 6 pot calipers!
Now, how can you say i have not reached "even 50%" of the GTS brakes. you admit that most of the braking forces are at the outer diameter and all i have sacraficed is 1/2" at the bottom of the pad. rotor is the same, calipers are plenty capable, so I would venure to say with the proper pad it could be dead nuts equal. again, all these manufacturers could use the larger pad, but THEY DONT!!! Its all about diameter and pad materials. Ive always been a big fan of the Stock S4 brakes. I only recently exceeded the perforamance of them. I think i have more racing days on the stock equiped 928 than anyone in the world, and as soon as I put the stroker in , trying to decel from 135mph vs 125mph into a hair pin, proved to me that the S4 brakes had met their match. I couldnt get the car to slow down fast enough. A brand new pad helped but it was not enough. Many of the guys that have made similar changes in rotor diameter, and not pad size have seen very similar results. I trust that this will help braking on a few different levels. plus they look great!
"Half assed" brake upgrade? is stoptech St40 as shown above , "half assed "? These are identical , without the 2 piece rotor, use the same pad, have the same size caliper and the same sized rotor. PLUS, my calipers are brembo if you are into brand names. Go Big browns!
Mk
also, i get what your main objective here is, basically you just want to change the contact point of the pad to the rotor so by going with a larger rotor you can have a little bit more leverage. Such as the case when you use a longer braker bar you gain more torque.
Thats all well and good, but i see this theory as only going half way. I think its honestly a half assed brake upgrade honestly. And i dont think the larger rotor with greater heat sink capability and the leverage point is even 50% in the idea that going to the GTS setup is an UPRGADE, so i dont think your even halfway there. With the calipers ....... well you know already the differences
THAT ALL BEING SAID, i do still think that as many have said the GTS brakes are not the be all end all of brakes, it maybe even questionable wether or not there is any significant increase in braking efficency over S4 brakes. BUT if your going to do an upgrade, i dont know why you do this. I dont see why you either just leave it be, or use what Porsche engineered.
Thats all well and good, but i see this theory as only going half way. I think its honestly a half assed brake upgrade honestly. And i dont think the larger rotor with greater heat sink capability and the leverage point is even 50% in the idea that going to the GTS setup is an UPRGADE, so i dont think your even halfway there. With the calipers ....... well you know already the differences
THAT ALL BEING SAID, i do still think that as many have said the GTS brakes are not the be all end all of brakes, it maybe even questionable wether or not there is any significant increase in braking efficency over S4 brakes. BUT if your going to do an upgrade, i dont know why you do this. I dont see why you either just leave it be, or use what Porsche engineered.
12-24-2008, 03:45 AM
#104
Nordschleife Master
you cant be serious!
the entire reason for the brake upgrade IS the larger diameter. Its the basic and fundamental premise for the reason all the top brake manufacturers are so sucessfull making more capable braking systems! more mass, more leverage, and better heat dissapating capabilities. Why dont they use the taller pad? the inner area doesnt do much. proof...... no one uses the GTS type pad, except the GTS and 993TT. Most all race cars today use something like this. and by the way, look at the gap between hub and the bottom of the pad.
Again, the stoptech is the most popular brake package of all race systems today. the ST40 system IS our S4 brakes with a similar caliper and the exact same pad. It does not use the GTS pad. They run it on 13 or 14" rotors. below shows the gap again of their 6 pot calipers!
Now, how can you say i have not reached "even 50%" of the GTS brakes. you admit that most of the braking forces are at the outer diameter and all i have sacraficed is 1/2" at the bottom of the pad. rotor is the same, calipers are plenty capable, so I would venure to say with the proper pad it could be dead nuts equal. again, all these manufacturers could use the larger pad, but THEY DONT!!! Its all about diameter and pad materials. Ive always been a big fan of the Stock S4 brakes. I only recently exceeded the perforamance of them. I think i have more racing days on the stock equiped 928 than anyone in the world, and as soon as I put the stroker in , trying to decel from 135mph vs 125mph into a hair pin, proved to me that the S4 brakes had met their match. I couldnt get the car to slow down fast enough. A brand new pad helped but it was not enough. Many of the guys that have made similar changes in rotor diameter, and not pad size have seen very similar results. I trust that this will help braking on a few different levels. plus they look great!
"Half assed" brake upgrade? is stoptech St40 as shown above , "half assed "? These are identical , without the 2 piece rotor, use the same pad, have the same size caliper and the same sized rotor. PLUS, my calipers are brembo if you are into brand names. Go Big browns!
Mk
the entire reason for the brake upgrade IS the larger diameter. Its the basic and fundamental premise for the reason all the top brake manufacturers are so sucessfull making more capable braking systems! more mass, more leverage, and better heat dissapating capabilities. Why dont they use the taller pad? the inner area doesnt do much. proof...... no one uses the GTS type pad, except the GTS and 993TT. Most all race cars today use something like this. and by the way, look at the gap between hub and the bottom of the pad.
Again, the stoptech is the most popular brake package of all race systems today. the ST40 system IS our S4 brakes with a similar caliper and the exact same pad. It does not use the GTS pad. They run it on 13 or 14" rotors. below shows the gap again of their 6 pot calipers!
Now, how can you say i have not reached "even 50%" of the GTS brakes. you admit that most of the braking forces are at the outer diameter and all i have sacraficed is 1/2" at the bottom of the pad. rotor is the same, calipers are plenty capable, so I would venure to say with the proper pad it could be dead nuts equal. again, all these manufacturers could use the larger pad, but THEY DONT!!! Its all about diameter and pad materials. Ive always been a big fan of the Stock S4 brakes. I only recently exceeded the perforamance of them. I think i have more racing days on the stock equiped 928 than anyone in the world, and as soon as I put the stroker in , trying to decel from 135mph vs 125mph into a hair pin, proved to me that the S4 brakes had met their match. I couldnt get the car to slow down fast enough. A brand new pad helped but it was not enough. Many of the guys that have made similar changes in rotor diameter, and not pad size have seen very similar results. I trust that this will help braking on a few different levels. plus they look great!
"Half assed" brake upgrade? is stoptech St40 as shown above , "half assed "? These are identical , without the 2 piece rotor, use the same pad, have the same size caliper and the same sized rotor. PLUS, my calipers are brembo if you are into brand names. Go Big browns!
Mk
hey if your happy, thats all that matters honestly. you could do back to back braking tests to try and validate the difference with numbers, but in the end you obviously believe in it and you dont need to validate it with numbers at all. If it works for you, it works for you, It doesnt do it for me obviously but who gives a crap.
If your happy, im happy for you
carry on
12-24-2008, 05:30 AM
#105
Rennlist Member
Personally I would look to use the Cayenne 6 pots which are also pretty cheap, and won't hold the same heat as the S4 or the Big Red/Blacks. They have the large pad area but wider and shallow as opposed to narrow and deep of the Big Red/Blacks. I have Big Reds and will look to upgrade to 6 pots if the drilled rotors don't help.