hans14914

AO-

Congrats again on those numbers. I think getting the pump working will certainly push into the 500's.

Speaking of which I have a very affordable tank guy, so if you want to collaborate on getting some paper/cardboard mockup made for one to fit in the drivers-side under headlight void, I can get them popped out. I have speculated for years that running a detergent though those intercooler pumps would cause premature failure. Also, alcohol is an oxidant for untreated aluminum so could cause some buildup in the system further contributing to pump failure.

I can start working on some mockups this week and send you files to make your own cardboard mockup for test fit, and we could get these popped out next week or so. I think I also have a nice Jabsco pump laying around somewhere if I can find it.

Thanks
Hans

AO

Yeah... I might have to look into that. I wonder if you can spray through a twin screw? That would make things easier if you could. Mike (KillaV) made me a little gizmo switch to swap between maps on the fly. Would be cool to have one for Meth and use that when I really want to give it hell! Might also be good for the 85 Euro.

No Hans... THANK YOU! It was great seeing you even though you got sucked into Todd's lair and we didn't see you all night!

Yeah. I'd totally be interested in that. Let's do it. What do you need from me? We need to make it accommodate the ABS pump of the late cars, but also make sure it works on the early cars.

How much volume do we need? I guess as long as the heat exchanger can bring it down to ambient, it doesn't matter much.

hans14914

I would like to see at least a gallon, but we can go with as large as will fit. I can use the GTS I have in the driveway as a mockup. I dont have easy access to an early car though, so you will have to take the model and check it against your euro. I will try and start work on Wednesday evening on the templates.

Thanks
Hans

Cosmo Kramer

Nice numbers Andrew! Is this SC maxed out in RPM's or can it go further?

Regarding using 93, I found that when I was doing preliminary testing with my SC my car was very sensitive to octane. When I filled it with Ultra 94 the pinging went away. Since then I have made other tuning/setup changes and I am back to using 91, but a few points in octane go a long way if you are in a spot and need to get rid of the knocks.

AO

I have a couple slightly smaller pulleys, but the last time I tried that, i cooked a seal on the 1.7l which is what prompted me to swap it out for the 2.1l. So... I'm gonna say no to that one.

I was really amazed. I'm going to develop a low-octane map in the Shark tuner to see what I can do.

Tony

Problem with the TS as i have found is the temp drop that the Methanol injection provides isnt realized all the way to the intake port. This is because in mine i had the injection port after the maf and prior to the SC inlet. It did a great job of dropping the temp PRIOR to the Sc intlet, but ideally on the TS you want it AFTER the discharge of the SCer where the temp is the hottest....this is pretty hard if not impossible to correctly on our TS setups. After the SC outlet the air hits the intercooler and there isnt enough room there for the water/meth to properly "evaporate" and cool the air. It will "wet" on the Intercooler face. If you do it at the intercooler discharge the same holds true. The air makes a 90' turn in a short space before hitting the bottom of the manifold.

If it were to be done "ideally" on a TS i would have 8 individual ports on the manifold prior to the intake ports of each cylinder. This would allow the water/meth jo do its job better and most importantly would be distributed equally to all cylinders.

It works as George has seen, but on our TS setup there are issues that need to be addressed.

Bill Ball

Yes, George's is a Vortech blower. I can see there could be a plumbing issue with methanol/water injection on a twinscrew or Roots. The system George uses has 2 nozzles. One is in the air intake prior to the blower and the other is in the boot after the MAF. The system has a boost-sensitive controller for the pump and a 5 gallon tank for the 50/50 mix, mounted where the rear passenger side seat used to be. VERY effective at raising octane rating.

DaveUK

I just finished reading the whole of this thread (4 sittings) and I feel as if I have been on the journey with you as well as learning a whole load of really important stuff that I now won't need to pester you all about!

It is a thread spanning seven years and it must have made some kind of internet record as it has stayed on-topic, has not been hijacked by trolls (you guys deal with them well - couple of rebuffs then ignore!) and is still going strong.

I must admit I skimmed thro' the posts that were about tweaking the fuel pressure since I know that is not the best route to take now that the Sharktuner is available. I have made some notes which I will happily mail to anybody and I have also downloaded most of the pictures too.

I had a small 'moment' last night - I was really enthusiastic about this whole thing then I ran into the Blau posts and he really pi$$ed on my bonfire with his scorn for the plenum manifold. But then I slept on it and, actually, he offered some clues as to how to overcome some of the shortcomings of it (without spending weeks doing a CAD design which will cost a mint to machine) so I will try some improvements on my setup, and after all the plenum manifold is enabling all you guys to have some fat torque curves so it is a good thing.

I am going to sketch up my design and come up with a development process to take me from where I am now (stock '89 S4 Euro) to where I want to be (burning up the road like Tony does) and I'll keep you all informed of progress as it is (slowly) made.

Step 1 is almost complete - any news on shipping costs Hans?

Step 2 is a visit to Cambridge in the near future.

Can't wait!

I will be standing on the shoulders of giants.

dprantl

If you are going to try and redesign a twin screw manifold, you really should look at the engine of a C32 AMG or E55 AMG. They have the same intake paths as a 928 and have individual intake runners. Basically if you could just fabricate the intake "boxes" that attach to the heads and the box attaching to the supercharger from below that contains the intercooler, you would be almost all of the way there.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

Ralph Newman

Hans, AO
This winter I will be installing an intercooler (thanks Hans) and have been considering using separate expansion tank rather than the windshield wiper one. Please keep me in mind if you develop one.
Also, AO, those are incredible dyno charts. I don't think I have ever seen a torque curve that flat.

Vlocity

Hi Guys,

I have identifed that I have an intake leak, so I will be pulling the manifold etc. The intake gaskets that I have are made from the vinyl like material. While I do have some of that on hand just curious if someone has found something better. I also am curious if anyone has a used manifold laying around. Mine is the original from Andy and while it has served me well since 2005. I know that there have been some improvements there as well.

Thanks all,

Ken

Ralph Newman

Ken, I used stock intake gasket with spacers on my non-intercooled SC. When I removed it the gasket was in very good shape.

cfc928gt

Ken, you need to use 1" spacers inside the manifold at the bolt holes. This keeps the manifold from deforming or warping when you tighten the nuts or bolts down. With the 1" spacers you can torque the nuts or bolts to the stock torque setting. As Ralph sayes, use stock intake gaskets with 1/8" washers to mimic the stock intake standoffs.

Vlocity

Guys,

Thanks for the gasket information. I posted about the spacers way back here. LOL
https://rennlist.com/forums/5446996-post1756.html

Vlocity

I did my tear down this afternoon and discovered that the manifold is cracked around the floor of the manifold where the individual pieces were welded together. I believe that I could repair it........but.

Does anyone have a manifold, I know there have been some substantial improvements in the design.

Any leads appreciated. I am down to about 6 weeks before my first weekend of the season instructing with PCA.

Ken