3.2 secret opps....This is NOT a technical thread about chips(2guys1DP)
02-24-2009, 07:29 PM
#61
I haddah Google dat
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
ok, that makes me feel better. My O2 sensor is ok. I think it was about .46 dcv but I'm not sure. I need to check everything once I have the LM-1 installed and I have been able to check lambda at wot and idle.
I'll post in the air fuel ratio thread my results regarding idle, afr, lambda at both idle and wot. I'll include the O2 sensor voltage as well, but be advised this is with a stock chip, not aftermarket.
Draco, I admire your patience and character. I don't know if I have any infraction points left to spare. I'd probably have gotten myself booted from Rennlist. They like to protect the undeserving as well as the deserving around here, just ask Bob.
I'll post in the air fuel ratio thread my results regarding idle, afr, lambda at both idle and wot. I'll include the O2 sensor voltage as well, but be advised this is with a stock chip, not aftermarket.
Draco, I admire your patience and character. I don't know if I have any infraction points left to spare. I'd probably have gotten myself booted from Rennlist. They like to protect the undeserving as well as the deserving around here, just ask Bob.
02-24-2009, 07:39 PM
#64
ok, that makes me feel better. My O2 sensor is ok. I think it was about .46 dcv but I'm not sure. I need to check everything once I have the LM-1 installed and I have been able to check lambda at wot and idle.
I'll post in the air fuel ratio thread my results regarding idle, afr, lambda at both idle and wot. I'll include the O2 sensor voltage as well, but be advised this is with a stock chip, not aftermarket.
Draco, I admire your patience and character. I don't know if I have any infraction points left to spare. I'd probably have gotten myself booted from Rennlist. They like to protect the undeserving as well as the deserving around here, just ask Bob.
I'll post in the air fuel ratio thread my results regarding idle, afr, lambda at both idle and wot. I'll include the O2 sensor voltage as well, but be advised this is with a stock chip, not aftermarket.
Draco, I admire your patience and character. I don't know if I have any infraction points left to spare. I'd probably have gotten myself booted from Rennlist. They like to protect the undeserving as well as the deserving around here, just ask Bob.
Ok, I need to stop.
Yes, please Rusnak post your findings.
02-24-2009, 07:41 PM
#65
Addict
Thread Starter
only amoung friends. 
02-24-2009, 07:54 PM
#67
02-24-2009, 08:37 PM
#68
Addict
Thread Starter
02-24-2009, 09:50 PM
#69
Intermediate
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Palatine IL
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
O2 sensor understanding.
There seem to be a little misunderstanding on how a o2 sensor read and what the strategy is for a fuel control system uses this information.
I currently work as a trainer for Navistar and have done the same for GM and BOSCH.
First- An o2 works like a galvanic battery. And not to get to far into the PFM that takes place inside, but let me give you a little understanding what is happing inside an o2 sensor. The movement of the negative oxygen ions form the outside reference oxygen moving through the zirconium ceramic to the exhaust side creates current movement that is measured in voltage by the ECU. The richer the air/fuel the less o2 on the exhaust side the more voltage- 450mv-900mv. The leaner the a/f the more o2 on the exhaust side the less voltage 0-450mv. The normal voltage range of a non wide band o2 is 0-900mv (.9 v) 14.7 :1 is = to .450mv or Lambda (λ)= 1.
There are numerous reason to constantly passing through lambda and not really relative to this discussion. A well tuned system will range from .250-.650mv continuously measured at the o2 as done above. The system is looking for an avg close to 450mv give or take, depending on engine load. How well your meter work is could be in question. I use a Fluke 88 V automotive. If I use the min max feature it will record the min and the max and then the AVG. Run the motor up to 2500rpm then use this feature and take your reading.
There seem to be a little misunderstanding on how a o2 sensor read and what the strategy is for a fuel control system uses this information.
I currently work as a trainer for Navistar and have done the same for GM and BOSCH.
First- An o2 works like a galvanic battery. And not to get to far into the PFM that takes place inside, but let me give you a little understanding what is happing inside an o2 sensor. The movement of the negative oxygen ions form the outside reference oxygen moving through the zirconium ceramic to the exhaust side creates current movement that is measured in voltage by the ECU. The richer the air/fuel the less o2 on the exhaust side the more voltage- 450mv-900mv. The leaner the a/f the more o2 on the exhaust side the less voltage 0-450mv. The normal voltage range of a non wide band o2 is 0-900mv (.9 v) 14.7 :1 is = to .450mv or Lambda (λ)= 1.
There are numerous reason to constantly passing through lambda and not really relative to this discussion. A well tuned system will range from .250-.650mv continuously measured at the o2 as done above. The system is looking for an avg close to 450mv give or take, depending on engine load. How well your meter work is could be in question. I use a Fluke 88 V automotive. If I use the min max feature it will record the min and the max and then the AVG. Run the motor up to 2500rpm then use this feature and take your reading.
02-24-2009, 09:53 PM
#70
Intermediate
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Palatine IL
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
P.S If you unplug the Os sensor wire with KOEO you should see a bias voltave from the ECU of .450
Also another little tid bit ALL Bosch O2 sensors get the reference air from the wire. So if any of you guys are putting dielectric grease in your connector for the 02 your blocking off the passage.
FYI
wide band has a little more PFM in it but in short the ECU controls the sensor at 450 so if it is rich in needs to take current from the sensor to achieve 450mv if it is lean it adds current. Can’t be check with a DVOM best viewed with a Diag tester. But when vied with a Diag tester you will see a processed info and will be displayed in a 0-5 range the big difference is 0 is rich 5 is lean. Voltage = to Lambda will very from MRG to MFG. Wide band ( Id.’ed by 5-6 wire sensors) has a range of Lambda = to .7 to 2.2 ( if memory serves me right) where a non wide band (1-4 wire) range is lambda= .9 to1.1
Also another little tid bit ALL Bosch O2 sensors get the reference air from the wire. So if any of you guys are putting dielectric grease in your connector for the 02 your blocking off the passage.
FYI
wide band has a little more PFM in it but in short the ECU controls the sensor at 450 so if it is rich in needs to take current from the sensor to achieve 450mv if it is lean it adds current. Can’t be check with a DVOM best viewed with a Diag tester. But when vied with a Diag tester you will see a processed info and will be displayed in a 0-5 range the big difference is 0 is rich 5 is lean. Voltage = to Lambda will very from MRG to MFG. Wide band ( Id.’ed by 5-6 wire sensors) has a range of Lambda = to .7 to 2.2 ( if memory serves me right) where a non wide band (1-4 wire) range is lambda= .9 to1.1
Last edited by a 911 Widebody; 02-25-2009 at 07:26 PM.
02-24-2009, 10:12 PM
#71
Addict
Thread Starter
Wow, presented in a nice clean package too. Thank you so much for the input... I've gotta cook dinner for the crew, but I am gonna do exactly as you say and see where I'm at with the info you guys have all given.
You realize you just turned this into a technical thread and doing such have opening yourself up to the wrath that may be getting it's final cut and paste as we speak...
Welcome to Rennlist. May you live through what is sure to come your way...
You realize you just turned this into a technical thread and doing such have opening yourself up to the wrath that may be getting it's final cut and paste as we speak...
Welcome to Rennlist. May you live through what is sure to come your way...
02-25-2009, 03:50 AM
#73
"You see 0.02-0.06 range is not too lean."
Not nice to edit a post and lie.
"I wide band has a little more PFM in it but in short the ECU controls the sensor at 450 so if it is rich in needs to take current from the sensor to achieve 450mv if it is lead add current."
Actually, the O2 sensor is a voltage source, i.e. It develops voltage & that's
why a voltmeter will measure its open circuit voltage. The DME ECM (pin 24)
is a high impedence input which does NOT "take current" nor "add current".
That input is used to trigger a comparator set to .50 volts. Any O2 voltage
over .50 causes the comparator to "command" the microprocessor in the
DME ECM to "step" lean the mixture. Any voltage less than .50 causes the
opposite to occur, i.e. richen the mixture. This then results in a small RPM
oscillation of about +/- 50 RPMs.
Not nice to edit a post and lie.
"I wide band has a little more PFM in it but in short the ECU controls the sensor at 450 so if it is rich in needs to take current from the sensor to achieve 450mv if it is lead add current."
Actually, the O2 sensor is a voltage source, i.e. It develops voltage & that's
why a voltmeter will measure its open circuit voltage. The DME ECM (pin 24)
is a high impedence input which does NOT "take current" nor "add current".
That input is used to trigger a comparator set to .50 volts. Any O2 voltage
over .50 causes the comparator to "command" the microprocessor in the
DME ECM to "step" lean the mixture. Any voltage less than .50 causes the
opposite to occur, i.e. richen the mixture. This then results in a small RPM
oscillation of about +/- 50 RPMs.
02-25-2009, 03:59 AM
#74
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doug,
You guys confused me. Looking at your pic/avatar, the guy in a jean and t-shirt isn't SW? That's SW though.
You guys confused me. Looking at your pic/avatar, the guy in a jean and t-shirt isn't SW? That's SW though.