GT4 RS Driving Impressions
06-04-2024, 01:56 AM
#1231
Rennlist Member
Sounds to me like the 4RS has a true motorsport transmission similar if not the same as the Clubsports. I don't think the GT3 RSs can say that, aren't all the transmissions in the Cup cars, GT3R, RSR still sequential?
06-04-2024, 02:35 AM
#1232
My experience with the .2 3RS going over turn 1 at Laguna where one is around 200 kph when the pavement drops out was that the 3RS was rock solid due to it's aero. I had the full Ventus aero package on my GT3 which supposedly provided downforce in the 4RS range. If the 4RS feels as planted there as my old GT3 I'll be a happy camper. If the 4RS has anywhere near .2 3RS levels in the real world I'll be ecstatic.
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mr965 (06-04-2024)
06-04-2024, 04:39 AM
#1233
Sound is of course subjective, and I should note that my 3RS has center muffler delete. 4RS is louder, but 3RS is pretty loud too, and like the sound of the 3RS better. Sounds more like a race car to me. 4RS sounds good to me too, but a bit loud for my taste and I'm still getting used to the air intake sounds.
3RS feels lighter and more dynamic. I feel like I can sense exactly what's happening at each corner of the car (like walking in bare feet), whereas the 4RS feels velvety and a bit insulated (like walking in comfortable running shoes). 3RS also feels like it has a sharper response to inputs. Net effect of the 3RS tell me more clearly what it's doing and responding to my inputs more sharply is that I have more confidence when driving it, so I can toss it around more
Main difference with the shifting is that the 3RS is smoother, less jolt. I prefer less jolt (or better yet, no jolt).
I have PCCB on both cars, and the brakes feel fantastic in both cars. 3RS requires a little more pedal pressure, which I like because it makes modulation easier. Main difference in how they feel on the brakes is that weight transfer is more apparent with the 3RS.
Generally, 4RS is easier to drive up to about 6 tenths, which has the downside that it can be driven somewhat mindlessly and can reduce engagement. The 3RS moves around more up to 6 tenths, and therefore asks for more attention to drive it well.
3RS is a considerably more expensive car both new and used, and what you're paying extra for is the experience. 4RS is like you go a well regarded restaurant and you find the food to be great. 3RS is like going to a restaurant and discovering that you didn't realize that food can be that good. 3RS has a wow factor that few cars have (for me, the 992 TTS and McLaren 570 definitely have it). But to the credit of the 4RS, it can deliver about the same lap time on track as the 3RS, and it does it at a lower price point, with less aero.
3RS feels lighter and more dynamic. I feel like I can sense exactly what's happening at each corner of the car (like walking in bare feet), whereas the 4RS feels velvety and a bit insulated (like walking in comfortable running shoes). 3RS also feels like it has a sharper response to inputs. Net effect of the 3RS tell me more clearly what it's doing and responding to my inputs more sharply is that I have more confidence when driving it, so I can toss it around more
Main difference with the shifting is that the 3RS is smoother, less jolt. I prefer less jolt (or better yet, no jolt).
I have PCCB on both cars, and the brakes feel fantastic in both cars. 3RS requires a little more pedal pressure, which I like because it makes modulation easier. Main difference in how they feel on the brakes is that weight transfer is more apparent with the 3RS.
Generally, 4RS is easier to drive up to about 6 tenths, which has the downside that it can be driven somewhat mindlessly and can reduce engagement. The 3RS moves around more up to 6 tenths, and therefore asks for more attention to drive it well.
3RS is a considerably more expensive car both new and used, and what you're paying extra for is the experience. 4RS is like you go a well regarded restaurant and you find the food to be great. 3RS is like going to a restaurant and discovering that you didn't realize that food can be that good. 3RS has a wow factor that few cars have (for me, the 992 TTS and McLaren 570 definitely have it). But to the credit of the 4RS, it can deliver about the same lap time on track as the 3RS, and it does it at a lower price point, with less aero.
Interesting on handling. I agree Cayman in general easy to drive up to 6-7/10ths then requires attention. My 992 GT3 was even easier so maybe your RS is just different to that.
06-04-2024, 04:40 AM
#1234
Both cars have factory alignment and aero settings.
an accomplished pro driver drove my 991.2 3RS, my 992 GT3, and someone’s 4RS on track the same day. was faster than the two 911 cars. Damn impressive. I asked the pro which one he liked the most, and he said he would take the 3RS every time, “it’s just better”.
an accomplished pro driver drove my 991.2 3RS, my 992 GT3, and someone’s 4RS on track the same day. was faster than the two 911 cars. Damn impressive. I asked the pro which one he liked the most, and he said he would take the 3RS every time, “it’s just better”.
2: better for some = faster, the 4RS was faster, thus = better :-)
thing for me was the 4RS is more honest, I liked my 991.2 GT3 manual should have kept it, the RWS I did not like though and I don't like the e-diffs in any car. So for me the 4RS seems more honest to drive with a real diff and no RWS. the gearing is one of the best things with it, I thought is had GT3 box but with a shorter final drive. It def the most fun PDK box out of all the GT cars. So again the best = better to me on the gear box.
If you track I would miss out the 991.2 RS and just track a 992 GT3 though. For fun the 4 RS wins and is the most honest GT car to drive since 2015 and has the beat gearbox and best throttle. for road any car with 265's up front is a pain so none of these cars make good road cars. maybe the 4RS = better on the road again.
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Odin (06-04-2024)
06-04-2024, 07:16 AM
#1235
Both cars have factory alignment and aero settings.
End of last season, an accomplished pro driver drove my 991.2 3RS, my 992 GT3, and someone’s 4RS on track the same day. The 4RS had a very good track setup and grippy Nankang CR-S v2 tires, and was faster than the two 911 cars. Damn impressive. I asked the pro which one he liked the most, and he said he would take the 3RS every time, “it’s just better”.
I think the 3RS you drove may have had issues with the setup. I’ve driven my car pretty hard, and it felt great, best experience I ever had on track. I’m looking forward to tracking the 4RS. Even if I like the 3RS more, the 4RS will offer something different.
End of last season, an accomplished pro driver drove my 991.2 3RS, my 992 GT3, and someone’s 4RS on track the same day. The 4RS had a very good track setup and grippy Nankang CR-S v2 tires, and was faster than the two 911 cars. Damn impressive. I asked the pro which one he liked the most, and he said he would take the 3RS every time, “it’s just better”.
I think the 3RS you drove may have had issues with the setup. I’ve driven my car pretty hard, and it felt great, best experience I ever had on track. I’m looking forward to tracking the 4RS. Even if I like the 3RS more, the 4RS will offer something different.
I did 6 trackdays with stock geo on my 4RS and then had it done by the next weekend. At first I felt he rear was looser and more unstable and didn’t like it, but then understood this was the trade off to have a more responsive, agile car with a higher degree of turn in. Now when I drive it I’m just smiling at my previous perception. Same with my friends .2 3RS. As I said, he’s a track rat and trailers his 3RS to and from the tracks, so he’s done a pretty extreme setup for almost track only. My best explanation would be the car was in a constant degree of instability, to allow for insane turn in and grip through curves. No doubt it was the better race car of the two, but I value my 4RS’s touring capabilities so highly, I wouldn’t trade it off for better on track performance. I’ve just tweaked the stock set up to max settings with stock hard ware. Plan is if I get bored of it one day, to get in the car and drive down to Meusepath and have Manthey convert it to track beast.
06-04-2024, 07:18 AM
#1236
My experience with the .2 3RS going over turn 1 at Laguna where one is around 200 kph when the pavement drops out was that the 3RS was rock solid due to it's aero. I had the full Ventus aero package on my GT3 which supposedly provided downforce in the 4RS range. If the 4RS feels as planted there as my old GT3 I'll be a happy camper. If the 4RS has anywhere near .2 3RS levels in the real world I'll be ecstatic.
Last edited by Odin; 06-04-2024 at 07:21 AM.
06-04-2024, 08:02 AM
#1237
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1: why do you have factory aero and geo ?
2: better for some = faster, the 4RS was faster, thus = better :-)
thing for me was the 4RS is more honest, I liked my 991.2 GT3 manual should have kept it, the RWS I did not like though and I don't like the e-diffs in any car. So for me the 4RS seems more honest to drive with a real diff and no RWS. the gearing is one of the best things with it, I thought is had GT3 box but with a shorter final drive. It def the most fun PDK box out of all the GT cars. So again the best = better to me on the gear box.
If you track I would miss out the 991.2 RS and just track a 992 GT3 though. For fun the 4 RS wins and is the most honest GT car to drive since 2015 and has the beat gearbox and best throttle. for road any car with 265's up front is a pain so none of these cars make good road cars. maybe the 4RS = better on the road again.
2: better for some = faster, the 4RS was faster, thus = better :-)
thing for me was the 4RS is more honest, I liked my 991.2 GT3 manual should have kept it, the RWS I did not like though and I don't like the e-diffs in any car. So for me the 4RS seems more honest to drive with a real diff and no RWS. the gearing is one of the best things with it, I thought is had GT3 box but with a shorter final drive. It def the most fun PDK box out of all the GT cars. So again the best = better to me on the gear box.
If you track I would miss out the 991.2 RS and just track a 992 GT3 though. For fun the 4 RS wins and is the most honest GT car to drive since 2015 and has the beat gearbox and best throttle. for road any car with 265's up front is a pain so none of these cars make good road cars. maybe the 4RS = better on the road again.
You know that any Porsche from factory is set up for a safe compromise? If you track your cars only one track weekend a year I get why you don’t have the geo’d, but once on track they will be slower to steer in, less responsive and chew through tires like crazy if you push hard.
I did 6 trackdays with stock geo on my 4RS and then had it done by the next weekend. At first I felt he rear was looser and more unstable and didn’t like it, but then understood this was the trade off to have a more responsive, agile car with a higher degree of turn in. Now when I drive it I’m just smiling at my previous perception. Same with my friends .2 3RS. As I said, he’s a track rat and trailers his 3RS to and from the tracks, so he’s done a pretty extreme setup for almost track only. My best explanation would be the car was in a constant degree of instability, to allow for insane turn in and grip through curves. No doubt it was the better race car of the two, but I value my 4RS’s touring capabilities so highly, I wouldn’t trade it off for better on track performance. I’ve just tweaked the stock set up to max settings with stock hard ware. Plan is if I get bored of it one day, to get in the car and drive down to Meusepath and have Manthey convert it to track beast.
I did 6 trackdays with stock geo on my 4RS and then had it done by the next weekend. At first I felt he rear was looser and more unstable and didn’t like it, but then understood this was the trade off to have a more responsive, agile car with a higher degree of turn in. Now when I drive it I’m just smiling at my previous perception. Same with my friends .2 3RS. As I said, he’s a track rat and trailers his 3RS to and from the tracks, so he’s done a pretty extreme setup for almost track only. My best explanation would be the car was in a constant degree of instability, to allow for insane turn in and grip through curves. No doubt it was the better race car of the two, but I value my 4RS’s touring capabilities so highly, I wouldn’t trade it off for better on track performance. I’ve just tweaked the stock set up to max settings with stock hard ware. Plan is if I get bored of it one day, to get in the car and drive down to Meusepath and have Manthey convert it to track beast.
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Odin (06-04-2024)
06-04-2024, 08:07 AM
#1238
Thanks for those last several posts! It's great to have real feedback and insights here. And appreciate the information on the transmission.
06-04-2024, 08:20 AM
#1239
I got the 991.2 3RS last summer, the 992 GT3 last fall, and the 4RS a few weeks ago. Due to 'life stuff', I was able to do only a few track days with the 3RS and GT3 last year before the season ended, and haven't yet gotten to the track this year. Plan and hope is to do a decent number of track days with each car this year, and I'll mess around with setup as needed to dial them in.
You certainly had the time to visit dealers though👌🏻
Hope you get to use them as planned. I can recommend having Porsche tweet your 4RS set up to the max using stock parts. It livens up the car and saves on tires.
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jabwind51 (06-05-2024)
06-04-2024, 08:31 AM
#1240
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I'd readily give up all the cars in exchange for making on particular 'life problem' go away ...
Aside from one Porsche I bought used a long time ago, I've bought all of my Porsches from the same dealer, and never even shopped at any other dealer. So my Porsche buying has been governed largely by what cars my dealer had available to offer me. For example, I wasn't shopping for a 3RS, but the dealer got mine as a trade in, and offered it to me before he listed it. My wife said I'd be crazy not to buy it, so I bought it.
The 4RS I coached in and the one the pro drove were both set up for the track with big cambers, the Nankang tires, etc. and both of cars were really fast. I anticipate that I'll wind up with a similar setup for our 4RS, but will try it on track with the factory setup first. I don't really trust my dealer to do alignment stuff (they adjusted alignment on the 992 GT3 and it seemed to make the car worse), so will likely have a race shop do it.
Aside from one Porsche I bought used a long time ago, I've bought all of my Porsches from the same dealer, and never even shopped at any other dealer. So my Porsche buying has been governed largely by what cars my dealer had available to offer me. For example, I wasn't shopping for a 3RS, but the dealer got mine as a trade in, and offered it to me before he listed it. My wife said I'd be crazy not to buy it, so I bought it.
The 4RS I coached in and the one the pro drove were both set up for the track with big cambers, the Nankang tires, etc. and both of cars were really fast. I anticipate that I'll wind up with a similar setup for our 4RS, but will try it on track with the factory setup first. I don't really trust my dealer to do alignment stuff (they adjusted alignment on the 992 GT3 and it seemed to make the car worse), so will likely have a race shop do it.
06-15-2024, 01:47 PM
#1241
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I took the 4RS for about a 50-mile drive today. I have about 660 miles on the car now, so it's still in break in. Drove with windows down, exhaust on loud, dampers in both softer and firmer setting. Things that jumped out to me today:
- The car is loud, but doesn't require earplugs. The sound is so different from the 992 GT3 that it wouldn't necessarily think it was the same engine if I didn't know it is.
- Ride quality is fine. Just not an issue.
- Jolts during downshifts are sometimes a bit much.
- The car has a lot of grip and wants to be driven fast. This is not an 'engaging at all speeds' sort of car.
- The handling is not as poised and dynamic as the 992 GT3. The suspension feels less communicative and less developed than the GT3, and this is more evident above 6/10ths. This observation probably correlates with the complaints some people have about the suspension. Even though it's a GT car and an RS, it's still a Cayman and has been 'held back' a bit compared to the GT3.
- The car is loud, but doesn't require earplugs. The sound is so different from the 992 GT3 that it wouldn't necessarily think it was the same engine if I didn't know it is.
- Ride quality is fine. Just not an issue.
- Jolts during downshifts are sometimes a bit much.
- The car has a lot of grip and wants to be driven fast. This is not an 'engaging at all speeds' sort of car.
- The handling is not as poised and dynamic as the 992 GT3. The suspension feels less communicative and less developed than the GT3, and this is more evident above 6/10ths. This observation probably correlates with the complaints some people have about the suspension. Even though it's a GT car and an RS, it's still a Cayman and has been 'held back' a bit compared to the GT3.
06-15-2024, 02:03 PM
#1242
I took the 4RS for about a 50-mile drive today. I have about 660 miles on the car now, so it's still in break in. Drove with windows down, exhaust on loud, dampers in both softer and firmer setting. Things that jumped out to me today:
- The car is loud, but doesn't require earplugs. The sound is so different from the 992 GT3 that it wouldn't necessarily think it was the same engine if I didn't know it is.
- Ride quality is fine. Just not an issue.
- Jolts during downshifts are sometimes a bit much.
- The car has a lot of grip and wants to be driven fast. This is not an 'engaging at all speeds' sort of car.
- The handling is not as poised and dynamic as the 992 GT3. The suspension feels less communicative and less developed than the GT3, and this is more evident above 6/10ths. This observation probably correlates with the complaints some people have about the suspension. Even though it's a GT car and an RS, it's still a Cayman and has been 'held back' a bit compared to the GT3.
- The car is loud, but doesn't require earplugs. The sound is so different from the 992 GT3 that it wouldn't necessarily think it was the same engine if I didn't know it is.
- Ride quality is fine. Just not an issue.
- Jolts during downshifts are sometimes a bit much.
- The car has a lot of grip and wants to be driven fast. This is not an 'engaging at all speeds' sort of car.
- The handling is not as poised and dynamic as the 992 GT3. The suspension feels less communicative and less developed than the GT3, and this is more evident above 6/10ths. This observation probably correlates with the complaints some people have about the suspension. Even though it's a GT car and an RS, it's still a Cayman and has been 'held back' a bit compared to the GT3.
06-15-2024, 02:04 PM
#1243
I took the 4RS for about a 50-mile drive today. I have about 660 miles on the car now, so it's still in break in. Drove with windows down, exhaust on loud, dampers in both softer and firmer setting. Things that jumped out to me today:
- The car is loud, but doesn't require earplugs. The sound is so different from the 992 GT3 that it wouldn't necessarily think it was the same engine if I didn't know it is.
- Ride quality is fine. Just not an issue.
- Jolts during downshifts are sometimes a bit much.
- The car has a lot of grip and wants to be driven fast. This is not an 'engaging at all speeds' sort of car.
- The handling is not as poised and dynamic as the 992 GT3. The suspension feels less communicative and less developed than the GT3, and this is more evident above 6/10ths. This observation probably correlates with the complaints some people have about the suspension. Even though it's a GT car and an RS, it's still a Cayman and has been 'held back' a bit compared to the GT3.
- The car is loud, but doesn't require earplugs. The sound is so different from the 992 GT3 that it wouldn't necessarily think it was the same engine if I didn't know it is.
- Ride quality is fine. Just not an issue.
- Jolts during downshifts are sometimes a bit much.
- The car has a lot of grip and wants to be driven fast. This is not an 'engaging at all speeds' sort of car.
- The handling is not as poised and dynamic as the 992 GT3. The suspension feels less communicative and less developed than the GT3, and this is more evident above 6/10ths. This observation probably correlates with the complaints some people have about the suspension. Even though it's a GT car and an RS, it's still a Cayman and has been 'held back' a bit compared to the GT3.
06-15-2024, 02:59 PM
#1244
As more speculators leave the market, I think we’ll soon start to get some more discerning impressions from new owner drivers that understand what the car is and how mid-engine dynamics work differently than rear engine and appreciate the differences. Not withstanding that maybe 4RS could do better with alternative wheel rate.
That said not everyone thinks the 911 is the pinnacle. They just have different characteristics. 911 will never have the agility and rotation of the mid-engine, and it needs more and more gizmos to emulate that such as RWS and e-diff.
That said not everyone thinks the 911 is the pinnacle. They just have different characteristics. 911 will never have the agility and rotation of the mid-engine, and it needs more and more gizmos to emulate that such as RWS and e-diff.
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06-15-2024, 03:08 PM
#1245
As more speculators leave the market, I think we’ll soon start to get some more discerning impressions from new owner drivers that understand what the car is and how mid-engine dynamics work differently than rear engine and appreciate the differences. Not withstanding that maybe 4RS could do better with alternative wheel rate.
That said not everyone thinks the 911 is the pinnacle. They just have different characteristics. 911 will never have the agility and rotation of the mid-engine, and it needs more and more gizmos to emulate that such as RWS and e-diff.
That said not everyone thinks the 911 is the pinnacle. They just have different characteristics. 911 will never have the agility and rotation of the mid-engine, and it needs more and more gizmos to emulate that such as RWS and e-diff.