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Lotus Emira
Audi R8 (some versions)
Gordon Murray T.33 & T.50
I agree re active vs. passive dampers. To me, most active damper implementations give the sensation that each corner is reacting with different dynamics at different times. This tends to make the car feel a bit disjointed, discombobulated, like quadra-ped robots. Such is the case with the 430, the 458 (with the much praised bumpy mode), and the GTS 4.0. In theory, adaptive should be better, on average. But I miss not having one dynamical setting that I can dial in and then just get used to. Strange: the 4RS PASM does not give me that disjointed robotic sensation. It feels properly old school, analog: firm, controlled, connected, but "rounded" on impact. On reasonable surfaces, it feels good to me. Bad pavements is a different story.
I own a 991.2 4S; but I don't take my experience with that car and then give advice on GT3 pro/cons, or make GT3 track setup recommendations.
I own a 718 Boxster; but I don't take my experience with that car and then give advice on Spyder pro/cons, or make Spyder track setup recommendations.
I own a GT4rs; but I don't take my experience with that car and then give advice on GT4 pro/cons, or make Gt4 track setup recommendations.
I've never owned a Corvette; so I don't take my lack of experience or knowledge with that car and then give advice on Corvette pro/cons, or make Corvette track setup recommendations.
It's really not that hard to stay in the lane that you have experience and knowledge in, and out of the lane that you have no experience and knowledge in.
I own a 991.2 4S; but I don't take my experience with that car and then give advice on GT3 pro/cons, or make GT3 track setup recommendations.
I own a 718 Boxster; but I don't take my experience with that car and then give advice on Spyder pro/cons, or make Spyder track setup recommendations.
I own a GT4rs; but I don't take my experience with that car and then give advice on GT4 pro/cons, or make Gt4 track setup recommendations.
I've never owned a Corvette; so I don't take my lack of experience or knowledge with that car and then give advice on Corvette pro/cons, or make Corvette track setup recommendations.
It's really not that hard to stay in the lane that you have experience and knowledge in, and out of the lane that you have no experience and knowledge in.
That is because you are looking at things as black or white.
If you expand your scope and realize that while some things may not transfer over directly one to one, there are common traits/things that do. The facts are still that the GT4 & 4RS are on the same chassis, use the same strut based suspension, and same basic PASM algorithms etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there will be common things that transfer over within the scope of the same chassis.
Same goes with tires, whether they are on a track or the street, they still share some basic similar traits, while some things won't transfer over from street to track, some do.
I NEVER claim to give track advice, I give my experiences from a street perspective and whether you like it or accept it or not, some things transfer over.
The 4RS used a GT3 motor, stiffer springs, recalibrated PASM settings to deal with those higher spring rates, but the basic tuning philosophy is the same when they set the internal damping curves and the PASM programming part. That part is obvious listening to those WHO have driven them and it's a common theme, not coincidence. Experiences vary based on roads quality and individual experiences and past experiences.
You just like to automatically discount everything as black or white.
Lastly, the ONLY two things I comment on are the 982 chassis (GT4 & 4RS) and tires that I HAVE ran and used on my GT4. I don't make claims about knowing anything about other Porsche cars or tires I have not personally used. It's also very arrogant of you to assume that just because you derive no use from my posts, that doesn't mean that some might and my posts are for them.
That is because you are looking at things as black or white.
If you expand your scope and realize that while some things may not transfer over directly one to one, there are common traits/things that do. The facts are still that the GT4 & 4RS are on the same chassis, use the same strut based suspension, and same basic PASM algorithms etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there will be common things that transfer over within the scope of the same chassis.
Same goes with tires, whether they are on a track or the street, they still share some basic similar traits, while some things won't transfer over from street to track, some do.
I NEVER claim to give track advice, I give my experiences from a street perspective and whether you like it or accept it or not, some things transfer over.
The 4RS used a GT3 motor, stiffer springs, recalibrated PASM settings to deal with those higher spring rates, but the basic tuning philosophy is the same when they set the internal damping curves and the PASM programming part. That part is obvious listening to those WHO have driven them and it's a common theme, not coincidence. Experiences vary based on roads quality and individual experiences and past experiences.
You just like to automatically discount everything as black or white.
Lastly, the ONLY two things I comment on are the 982 chassis (GT4 & 4RS) and tires that I HAVE ran and used on my GT4. I don't make claims about knowing anything about other Porsche cars or tires I have not personally used. It's also very arrogant of you to assume that just because you derive no use from my posts, that doesn't mean that some might and my posts are for them.
DRIVE the 4RS, then tell us how good or bad you think the suspension and handling are. Empirical experience trumps theoretical speculations.
I agree re active vs. passive dampers. To me, most active damper implementations give the sensation that each corner is reacting with different dynamics at different times. This tends to make the car feel a bit disjointed, discombobulated, like quadra-ped robots. Such is the case with the 430, the 458 (with the much praised bumpy mode), and the GTS 4.0. In theory, adaptive should be better, on average. But I miss not having one dynamical setting that I can dial in and then just get used to. Strange: the 4RS PASM does not give me that disjointed robotic sensation. It feels properly old school, analog: firm, controlled, connected, but "rounded" on impact. On reasonable surfaces, it feels good to me. Bad pavements is a different story.
The damping in the 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 3RS feels natural to me. The damping in the 992 GT3 and 4RS feels a bit more artificial and insulated to me, but not to the extent that of being close to a dealbreaker, and upside is that the damping has a more 'velvety' feel in these two cars.
We have a Cayman R with passive dampers. When I first got the car and tracked it a lot, it felt quite planted to me, while also having decent ride quality. Then I got the 991.1 GT3, and that made the Cayman R feel floaty and floppy by comparison. I drove the Cayman R this past weekend, and it still felt kind of floaty to me; it made me yearn for the planted feeling and poise of the 4RS.
DRIVE the 4RS, then tell us how good or bad you think the suspension and handling are. Empirical experience trumps theoretical speculations.
Don't need to, I have a pretty good sense of what I would feel based on those who have and that echo the same main complaints that I had about mine when stock. Obviously your opinion varies and that is fine, you might have a different definition of composed and/or your roads that you drive on are different from mine.
I know enough from those who have echos my exact thoughts I had initially. Like I said, it's not a coincidence.
I'm not going to go back and forth and argue on the thread. I said what I wanted and replied to those who I wanted to reply to.
I NEVER claim to give track advice, I give my experiences from a street perspective and whether you like it or accept it or not, some things transfer over.
.
You literally have over 500 posts associated with your name and "track".
I have seen you give advice to others regarding setup whether it's suspension or tires, when they are focused on track setup.
You've never been on track.
You've never been in a GT4RS.
That is black and white.
Yet that hasn't stopped you from trying to be an expert on both.
You literally have over 500 posts associated with your name and "track".
I have seen you give advice to others regarding setup whether it's suspension or tires, when they are focused on track setup.
You've never been on track.
You've never been in a GT4RS.
That is black and white.
Yet that hasn't stopped you from trying to be an expert on both.
SIGH!!!
I have never said ... this is my experience on track.
I say.. This is my experience from a street perspective in regards to tires. In regard to the 4RS, see my last post.
Again, agree to disagree
While my posts may seem redundant to you, too bad, they are always in the scope of the discussion, not the thread name, but the discussion. You don't like it, cry me a river, ignore them.
I have never said ... this is my experience on track.
I say.. This is my experience from a street perspective in regards to tires. In regard to the 4RS, see my last post.
Again, agree to disagree
While my posts may seem redundant to you, too bad, they are always in the scope of the discussion, not the thread name, but the discussion. You don't like it, cry me a river, ignore them.
The thread is about 4RS driving impressions. You can't have such an impression because you never drove one. You're merely speculating about what your impression would be IF you drove one, and you're overconfident about your speculation. As you know, I had a 981 GT4 and now have a 4RS, so I can compare the cars based on actually driving them.
The thread is about 4RS driving impressions. You can't have such an impression because you never drove one. You're merely speculating about what your impression would be IF you drove one, and you're overconfident about your speculation. As you know, I had a 981 GT4 and now have a 4RS, so I can compare the cars based on actually driving them.
So, what you are saying is that you do not understand the difference between replying to a comment about how I related to a similar experience in what I felt on my GT4 as opposed to me saying, I drove the 4RS car and this is the exact same behaviors I felt.
Friendly reminder on what happens when you decide you want to go with a high end passive suspension setup. I spent 11K all in on a high end JRZ 3 way system on my 997.2RS because I was unhappy with ride quality and PASM at the time. I also tried DSC on the car before trying the JRZ system. I can honestly say the difference in both systems was much smaller than you may think. Based on what I learned from using both I personally think the value is in the DSC system. If you asked me to quantify I'd say the DSC controller made the car 20% more comfortable and the full JRZ system about 30% better. Things people forget about: Modifications to the car (mounting canisters brackets etc.) along with new sounds and creeks, multiple alignment costs, learning to adjust the rebound and compression for street and track, time without the car and do you want to do all this to new car and mess with your overall value? I will never do it again on a street car. On a race car if you have support and the knowledge to go with it 100%. My 2 cents.
Totally understand...had race cars and highly modified street cars.
Reason why I stopped on the 4RS at DSC....dropping another $10-$15k on shocks will make it better but not that much better. As it currently is, can live with it on the road and track.
So, what you are saying is that you do not understand the difference between replying to a comment about how I related to a similar experience in what I felt on my GT4 as opposed to me saying, I drove the 4RS car and this is the exact same behaviors I felt.
Is that what you are telling me?
I'm saying that your opinions about how the 4RS drives are of essentially no value if you haven't driven one. So it's not clear why you're actively posting in this thread.
I have never said ... this is my experience on track.
I say.. This is my experience from a street perspective in regards to tires. In regard to the 4RS, see my last post.
Again, agree to disagree
While my posts may seem redundant to you, too bad, they are always in the scope of the discussion, not the thread name, but the discussion. You don't like it, cry me a river, ignore them.
Since you've never been on a track you actually don't understand the difference between track tire usage and street tire usage. So yeah it's worthless information.
Do you offer advice on other things you don't know about throughout the rest of your life as well? Are you literally the Holiday inn guy? I removed a splinter with tweezers yesterday so let me go ahead and give you advice on how to remove that gallbladder.
I'm saying that your opinions about how the 4RS drives are of essentially no value if you haven't driven one. So it's not clear why you're actively posting in this thread.
My opinions on how I think the 4RS drives or anything else I posted wasn't for you or anyone else other than the poster I replied to , hence me quoting them in my reply. So, I still don't understand why you need to interject at all. You forum police just like to try to control content don't you.
I really question your reading comprehension and taking things out of context.
05-13-2024, 04:50 PM
