When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
$17k over in 2021 was pretty typical. My 21 GT4 with more miles sold for $17k over last year.
Oh based on countless accounts I do believe that people were paying that on these cars. I was just suggesting that the $134K probably paid by the seller then is meaningless now.
Why even add that picture and not even mention the real MSRP? Maybe expectation to get anywhere close to that today on a $117K used 2020 car? Not gonna happen.
I think this will be another pointless reserve not met auction. But we'll see.
I'm just glad I have a MSRP only dealer. Reading some of the ADM stuff on this forum makes me cringe for those not doing this with play money only.
I mean there is even a financing thread on here...smh
I agree. My guess is the buyer has unreasonable expectations, as do many other sellers still sitting on unsold cars with crazy prices. The most laughable are some of the asks on 981 Spyders out their for sale. There’s definitely a drug problem in the US.
Oh based on countless accounts I do believe that people were paying that on these cars. I was just suggesting that the $134K probably paid by the seller then is meaningless now.
Why even add that picture and not even mention the real MSRP? Maybe expectation to get anywhere close to that today on a $117K used 2020 car? Not gonna happen.
I think this will be another pointless reserve not met auction. But we'll see.
I'm just glad I have a MSRP only dealer. Reading some of the ADM stuff on this forum makes me cringe for those not doing this with play money only.
I mean there is even a financing thread on here...smh
Originally Posted by Archimedes
I agree. My guess is the buyer has unreasonable expectations, as do many other sellers still sitting on unsold cars with crazy prices. The most laughable are some of the asks on 981 Spyders out their for sale. There’s definitely a drug problem in the US.
I have a feeling it has a realistic reserve. BaT lowballed me really hard on my 2020 Spyder with 8500 miles and a 127k MSRP(PCCB's, Leather, PDLS+, Buckets, etc) refusing to go above a 112k number which is why I didn't list with them and sold it private for way more. I doubt they went much higher for this one unless the relationship with Otto came into play.
Oh based on countless accounts I do believe that people were paying that on these cars. I was just suggesting that the $134K probably paid by the seller then is meaningless now.
Why even add that picture and not even mention the real MSRP? Maybe expectation to get anywhere close to that today on a $117K used 2020 car? Not gonna happen.
I think this will be another pointless reserve not met auction. But we'll see.
I'm just glad I have a MSRP only dealer. Reading some of the ADM stuff on this forum makes me cringe for those not doing this with play money only.
I mean there is even a financing thread on here...smh
Ya, I can't imagine financing a 150k car after ADM with a 6-8% or whatever interest rate. I don't think anyone financing on those terms is doing it because they have gobs of cash sitting around. More likely they're leveraged to the max and a layoff away from bankruptcy.
One thing though, in Canada the stupidly priced cars are not selling, but the mildly stupidly priced cars actually are. I know a 21 spyder sold for well over MSRP here very recently and it was one of the engine replacement cars. I expect with gt4/spyders not getting a mY24 the price should fall in the short term though. That's pretty much true everytime a car gets discontinued even when it's in high demand and I am not sure why exactly but I think its because all those keeping up with the jones people can't buy a 2020, throw a business card over the vin in the windshield to hide it, and claim it's a new MY24 allocation.
Ya, I can't imagine financing a 150k car after ADM with a 6-8% or whatever interest rate. I don't think anyone financing on those terms is doing it because they have gobs of cash sitting around. More likely they're leveraged to the max and a layoff away from bankruptcy.
One thing though, in Canada the stupidly priced cars are not selling, but the mildly stupidly priced cars actually are. I know a 21 spyder sold for well over MSRP here very recently and it was one of the engine replacement cars. I expect with gt4/spyders not getting a mY24 the price should fall in the short term though. That's pretty much true everytime a car gets discontinued even when it's in high demand and I am not sure why exactly but I think its because all those keeping up with the jones people can't buy a 2020, throw a business card over the vin in the windshield to hide it, and claim it's a new MY24 allocation.
Agreed with the Canada pricing stuff. The ones in the 135-150k seem to be moving … so 105-115k USD. But the guys hanging out at like 180-190k seem insanely optimistic to me. I picked up a 2020 CPO GT4 for 150k here and don’t regret it at all.
As per financing, there’s been a few threads on it but I think that one is a bit more touchy. My only comment would be that yes, cars are being financed at 6-8%, but fixed income investments have gone from 1-2% to 5-6%.. so it’s all a balance and in relative.
If you’re looking to sell (I’m not a buyer with an agenda) the data suggests that you should get out now. Auction predictions for the next 30 days are below current averages.
If you’re looking to sell (I’m not a buyer with an agenda) the data suggests that you should get out now. Auction predictions for the next 30 days are below current averages.
Interesting. Curious that the end of GT4 production this June doesn't push those in the opposite direction a bit, or at least hold them steady.
Good point. Perhaps it’s not taking that into consideration? Hard to say.
I think the reality is there are a lot of hopefuls on both sides of the equation.. I would say the bid below is probably a bit stronger than people think. There should still be some corrections but I do think the data is telling us a soft landing in the economy is actually quite possible. Jobs aren't going anywhere and people are still flush with cash.. Cars in this bracket should remain somewhat stable imo, and that paired with GT4s going out of production im not sure how much these can fall. I think the "get out now" is more for forced sellers.. and I can't imagine there are a lot of those out there owning GT4s..
Interesting. Curious that the end of GT4 production this June doesn't push those in the opposite direction a bit, or at least hold them steady.
Statistically the end of a model, even when it's quite rare, tanks the value of it a bit. It's possible that might not happen with this car because of hte lack of competition, but I expect once knowledge that the GT4 is discontinued becomes common knowledge we'll see a drop because a huge demographic chasing status will move on to the next newest must have shiny thing to brag about. No one chasing status wants to be seen in the previous generation of something. We've also had 4 years to get allocations; anyone who wanted one and didn't get one didn't try very hard. 2 years longer than originally expected.
The car market is also correcting somewhat, but generally no one buys sports cars in winter so that could be a big reason why we are seeing prices fall now. I also think there is more disposable money out there right now than people think for top percent people. The canadian housing market, at least in my province, is doing quite the opposite of what it should be doing right now. It just had a boom that cooled off last summer and had a dip, but it's actually up about 5% in one region for what I see since I closed on a house at peak boom, and I see projections this year of another 7% increase in prices in that region. I think car prices should fall but I will not be surprised if they start going up again in spring.
We've also had 4 years to get allocations; anyone who wanted one and didn't get one didn't try very hard. 2 years longer than originally expected
Not sure how that statement can be possible given every dealer has a list of people waiting for an allocation. Demand will always outweigh supply of Porsche GT cars, and it's by design.
The last 1989 Porsche 930 Turbos were completed in July of 1989. For almost a full year before production had come to an end, Porsche marketing and dealer's alike world-wide, indicated openly that there would be no follow-on model to replace the 1989 930 Turbo. Most speculated that Porsche still believed the 911 and 930 had been developed to a point of obsolescence and would soon be discontinued in favor of the their water-cooled, front-engined, V-8 928. As such many believed the 1989 930 Turbos to be the last of a very special breed of brutally fast and aggressive looking Porsches with no-follow on model to replace them. Dealers as such were in many cases charging extreme premiums on the last of the Turbos and prices on the secondary market were likewise far above the original window stickers.
(of course, those Turbos are, by and large, selling way above sticker again today, but I digress...)
I think the reality is there are a lot of hopefuls on both sides of the equation.. I would say the bid below is probably a bit stronger than people think. There should still be some corrections but I do think the data is telling us a soft landing in the economy is actually quite possible. Jobs aren't going anywhere and people are still flush with cash.. Cars in this bracket should remain somewhat stable imo, and that paired with GT4s going out of production im not sure how much these can fall. I think the "get out now" is more for forced sellers.. and I can't imagine there are a lot of those out there owning GT4s..
I would agree. The recession will affect lower income households proportionately more, not those that are buying toys like GT4's. There are more than enough cash buyers for these cars that interest rates dont affect the purchasing decision. Used car prices overall are not declining at a linear rate at all either, auction prices as reported on Bloomberg based on Mannheim data actually increased 2.5% in January. A lot of cooking model cars are still selling well over MSRP, case in point my friend paid $4k over for a Hyundai Palisade. Combine that with this being the final MY for the GT4, and final ICE Cayman I expect 718 prices will not drop at all.
Originally Posted by Zhao
Statistically the end of a model, even when it's quite rare, tanks the value of it a bit. It's possible that might not happen with this car because of hte lack of competition, but I expect once knowledge that the GT4 is discontinued becomes common knowledge we'll see a drop because a huge demographic chasing status will move on to the next newest must have shiny thing to brag about. No one chasing status wants to be seen in the previous generation of something. We've also had 4 years to get allocations; anyone who wanted one and didn't get one didn't try very hard. 2 years longer than originally expected.
The car market is also correcting somewhat, but generally no one buys sports cars in winter so that could be a big reason why we are seeing prices fall now. I also think there is more disposable money out there right now than people think for top percent people. The canadian housing market, at least in my province, is doing quite the opposite of what it should be doing right now. It just had a boom that cooled off last summer and had a dip, but it's actually up about 5% in one region for what I see since I closed on a house at peak boom, and I see projections this year of another 7% increase in prices in that region. I think car prices should fall but I will not be surprised if they start going up again in spring.
Allocations have not been easy to get. The lack of allocations will push everyone back into the used market, having quite the opposite effect on pricing. In terms of competition the GT4 really doesn't have much, its not a crowded segment by any stretch and there isn't a lot to 'cross shop' that's new if at all. There also wont be many people 'forced' to sell at this level and if they are it won't be for cheap given that a lot of folks were in well over MSRP. For all these reasons I just bought one to replace my 981 GT4, a very low mileage MY22.
I would agree. The recession will affect lower income households proportionately more, not those that are buying toys like GT4's. There are more than enough cash buyers for these cars that interest rates dont affect the purchasing decision. Used car prices overall are not declining at a linear rate at all either, auction prices as reported on Bloomberg based on Mannheim data actually increased 2.5% in January. A lot of cooking model cars are still selling well over MSRP, case in point my friend paid $4k over for a Hyundai Palisade. Combine that with this being the final MY for the GT4, and final ICE Cayman I expect 718 prices will not drop at all.
Allocations have not been easy to get. The lack of allocations will push everyone back into the used market, having quite the opposite effect on pricing. In terms of competition the GT4 really doesn't have much, its not a crowded segment by any stretch and there isn't a lot to 'cross shop' that's new if at all. There also wont be many people 'forced' to sell at this level and if they are it won't be for cheap given that a lot of folks were in well over MSRP. For all these reasons I just bought one to replace my 981 GT4, a very low mileage MY22.
Agreed with all those points. Another thing (Canada specific) that hasn’t really been discussed is the new Luxury Tax. It affects new cars to the tune of 15k or so but CPO aren’t subject to it.
02-09-2023, 07:37 PM
