jmartpr

Because on this side of the pond, for track rats like several of us, once you upgrade the pads you have better performance/feel than PCCBs, even with the Manthey pads, while saving $$$$
I'll take the better braking and savings over the +/- 4-5 lbs of weight savings on each corner ands no dust.

Adrift

I’m still confused why he can claim economy when pccb rotor replacement is astronomically expensive.

jmartpr

It all comes down to use.....if you don't track or only do it a handful of times per year PCCBs could last a very long time and the performance is very good out of the box while saving unsprung weight.
Of course that comes at the cost of adding them to your build, which is not that bad considering the replacement cost. That's why PCCB cars get more at resale, besides the secondary market being misinformed about brakes.
Now if you pound on them at the track it's no secret the way PCCB disc are build could result in lots of $$$$...in this regard ST are way better.

FazedChicken

Why not do this:

1) Get PCCB and track it like usual
2) When they're gone, get Girodisc or similar iron replacements that fit PCCB size

It's like getting a factory big brake kit. If your first set of PCCB lasts 2-3x longer than the stock iron setup, then you're already ahead and you have a bigger braking system too once you're comparing stock iron vs PCCB sized iron.

That's my plan. Unless there's something I'm not understanding correctly and PCCB will not last 2x the stock irons on track.

ExMB

When you get to sell/trade the car you will take a $20+k hit to put it back into OEM config.

jmartpr

Bigger? It's only 2 mm more in diameter vs the Iron setup on the 4RS.
IMO all these cars have more than enough brakes, even with 380 mm Irons on the GT4. You are limited by how much the tire will hold/have traction.
APs system is 394 mm and PFC is 380 mm (405 mm front is optional).....and I'm pretty sure those are up to the task.
Bigger more expensive is not always better....

Westcoast

If I was worried about the cost of replacing my PCCB rotors, I would swap in a set of ST rotors and box up the OEM set for the future. I don't get to the track a lot but have considered this move just the same.

Adrift

Odin asked why wouldn’t you choose pccb for a track car, then said they were more economical. Thus the disconnect in my head. I assumed he meant more than incidental track use.

I bought my pccb planning only incidental track use (a DE a year-ish), so I hope you guys’ assessment that shouldn’t meaningfully impact rotor life is right! lol I’m literally banking on it.

Westcoast

Me as well, although I get out about 6-8 times a year, which started me thinking about ST rotors...

IPSA

Take ceramics off day one and use Giro or Apex J hooks. When time to sell put ceramics back on and they will be brand new. Resale will be far better this way. Swap is generally 2 hours of labor per axle.

ExMB

I don't see anything in his post discussing economics. Longevity can mean fade resistance depending on how long you are out there.

sdillon

Am I being naive to think that resale value on a PCCB equipped car would be the same regardless of whether it had Porsche PCCB rotors (either original or OEM replacement) or Surface Transforms rotors? I assumed that if I decide to sell the RS, it won't really matter if it has the OEM PCCB or ST rotors. If I replaced the OEM PCCB rotors with iron, sure, but with ST rotors?

My plan is to spec PCCB, use the stock rotors until they wear out, then replace them with ST rotors as many times as needed while I enjoy the car (which involves a lot of track time).

My alternative was to go with iron and immediately replace them with AP racing brakes and rotors so at least the weight savings would be in the ballpark as PCCB. The cost of AP Racing brakes and rotors is a bit more than the PCCB option, so I'd call that a "wash" at time of purchase. I am thinking/hoping the ST rotors are at least comparable in running costs to AP Racing iron rotors given that the ST rotors can be resurfaced up to 4 times (I believe) before needing to be replaced. Anybody have any numbers to validate or shoot down my hope?

All that's left in my mental equation is (a) brake feel, which is subjective and we're all going to have our own preferences, (b) the AP brakes permit easy pad swaps without taking the calipers off, and (c) PCCB or ST rotors will keep those expensive blue Mg wheels cleaner. I know appearance is vain, but man I spent a lot of time keeping my Forgelines clean of dust from DS 3.12 pads on my 981 GT4.

sdillon

Ignore my PCCB post above please. Wrong thread for that. I'm sure people will tell me to read through the existing debates on PCCB vs iron, and rightly so.

Adrift

Hmm, true, but he did say fade right after longevity, so I guess that led me down the "benefits of long term use" intellectual path as the/an alternative; possibly erroneously.

Back to allocation talk?

Question on how these ADMs are typically structured...say you agreed to an ADM like $100k or whatever, but your car is in the queue somewhere to be built in the future (and possibly slipping). And now cars are showing up here, including dealer spec cars, with much lower ADM due to softening market. Are folks typically locked into those original ADMs? What kind of obligation is typically expected? Or is it totally variable by dealership? Are folks renegotiating all those (previously) higher ADMs?

Bahnbrenner

Deviating back to the topic of GT4RS allocations - I've been holding out for a GT4 allocation from a small dealer in the PNW for a very long time. They've apparently gone two and a half years since being given GT4 from PCNA. Anyways, I got a text out of the blue from my SA offering me a 4RS last week. March build, June delivery, $50K ADM. It was very tempting to go for it, but I ended up turning it down.

I work in tech, theres a global recession looming, and the specialty car bubble has (with very few exceptions) well and truly popped.