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what is the possibility that 992 GT3 would be based on this new 9A2EVO 4.0 block with dry sump, motorsport internals & cylinder head, instead of 991.2 GT3 4.0?
Extremely unlikely. Almost certainly going to be based on the 991.3 RS (the one in Europe with 6 Individual throttles and OPF) and Speedster, but hopefully without OPF in USA.
Yeah no way it’s 180. That would be a 25% jump. Even the 718 GT4 Was 15%. All others were circa 8-10 so low 160s would be reasonable but given COVID, I could see them go lower. 155-159 to fit below 160. There’s a reason Porsche released the 718 GT4 at 99,200 and not 100k. It’s psychological.
And agreed on the other points. Several members with good cleaning ladies have said circa 475. That is 60 HP more than the GT4. Since the GT4 pulls through red line (BGB dyno showed max power at 7930 RPM) it would be reasonable to conclude some more exotic internals (crank, pistons) plus 3-500 extra red line would make the 475 level from the 4.0.
IMO, it would be foolish for Porsche to develop a new motor that fits emissions regs (4.0 in GT4) just to try to retrofit the old GT3 motor. Remember, that motor doesn’t adhere to emissions regulations. They would have to update it, retune, add OPF, etc. that is a huge cost over stick some different internals in an existing motor that is ready to go. This also is not including r&d on fitting it in the first place.
I also have to clarify another point. There's almost no chance they put the 992 motor in the GT4RS and detune it. I believe Porsche themselves have said that detuning the 991.2 motor ruins a lot of the driving characteristics and so that will most likely carry over. It's not as though you can just cap the power like a turbo motor, if it causes other issues. If they did that, it would be faster than the 991.2 GT3 and probably RS. It took them 2 generations of 911 to make the GT4 as fast as the GT3. I'm betting the benchmark for the RS is the 991.1 RS and not the 991.2. Maybe a stretch to 991.2 GT3 when the 992 is already out. So 7.12 lap time but the new GT3 does 7 flat or something like that.
The R&D is there already on the motor and it gives them a good next step in the clubsport without making the CS way more expensive and against the ethos of what Porsche wants (a gentlemen's racer, turn key, minimal operating cost). Going with the GT3 motor means higher operating costs. The CS is 18 months away as mentioned. I wouldn't expect the RS until 2022.
As others have already mentioned here, the GT4 and upcoming GT4 RS already have a close connection to motorsport/racing through the GT4 Clubsport. There are various classes of GT4 + Trophy racing series where the GT4 CS + GT4 CS MR are competing in. Although it still runs the 3.8, I imagine Porsche will eventually update the Clubsport with the new GT4 4.0 engine.
As we're all having fun venturing a guess on what will likely represent the GT4 RS in terms of spec, I will say (based on nothing but instinct, spy shots, and Porsche enthusiasm):
- 440–450hp out of existing GT4 4.0L Flat 6
- PDK only
- Larger, more aggressive GT4 Clubsport-style carbon wing w/ swan neck uprights
- GT3RS-style carbon hood w/ integrated brake ducts
- Polycarbonate back and rear-side windows
- More aggressive suspension settings
- Tweaked PDK settings
- RS-specific paint/graphic options
As others have already mentioned here, the GT4 and upcoming GT4 RS already have a close connection to motorsport/racing through the GT4 Clubsport. There are various classes of GT4 + Trophy racing series where the GT4 CS + GT4 CS MR are competing in. Although it still runs the 3.8, I imagine Porsche will eventually update the Clubsport with the new GT4 4.0 engine.
As we're all having fun venturing a guess on what will likely represent the GT4 RS in terms of spec, I will say (based on nothing but instinct, spy shots, and Porsche enthusiasm):
- 440–450hp out of existing GT4 4.0L Flat 6
- PDK only
- Larger, more aggressive GT4 Clubsport-style carbon wing w/ swan neck uprights
- GT3RS-style carbon hood w/ integrated brake ducts
- Polycarbonate back and rear-side windows
- More aggressive suspension settings
- Tweaked PDK settings
- RS-specific paint/graphic options
- MSRP to be $140–150k USD before options.
I think MSRP will be less, or at least more like $140K.... at $150K before options you're very close to Clubsport money, and considering how limited these will be and very focused as track cars, the delta isn't wide enough. I don't think you'll see as many of these roaming around the streets as semi-daily cars or even purely weekend toys.
991.2 GT3 Base MSRP was $143,600
991.2 GT3 RS Base MSRP was $187,500
There's a $13,400 delta between GTS 4.0 and 718 GT4 Base.
If base PDK 718 GT4 is $104,760, I think you're going to be more in $135,000-$139,000 range BASE. This is approximately twice the delta between GTS 4.0 and 718 GT4, and basically slightly above where a MAXED 718 GT4 PDK will price out.
IMHO the characteristics that would make a GREAT GT4RS:
1) NA motor
2) 450 HP or more
3) Manual trans
4) GT car suspension parts
5) NO CENTER LOCKS
6) Euro spec package with roll bar (I know this wont happen but hey, great is a high standard)
7) Buckets
This spec is now my 2011 GT3 RS, which I NEVER should have sold. Still had center locks, but GREAT car!
IMHO the characteristics that would make a GREAT GT4RS:
1) NA motor
2) 450 HP or more
3) Manual trans
4) GT car suspension parts
5) NO CENTER LOCKS
6) Euro spec package with roll bar (I know this wont happen but hey, great is a high standard)
7) Buckets
This spec is now my 2011 GT3 RS, which I NEVER should have sold. Still had center locks, but GREAT car!
i mean... that's just a 718 GT4 isn't it? if you just buy a 718 GT4 and wait for the RS to come out you can buy the suspension parts, that's your car, and save like $30,000.
what you suggest is basically just removing the "RS" from an "RS" car... aside from some naca ducts and carbon fiber bits.
regular 718 gt4 with sharkwerks gearing, exhaust, and aero upgrades is going to be as good if not better than any gt4rs porsche is likely to offer. and i never say that about tuner cars. i like stock best. gearing is most important issues holding cayman back and i doubt porsche will fix that on their own.
regular 718 gt4 with sharkwerks gearing, exhaust, and aero upgrades is going to be as good if not better than any gt4rs porsche is likely to offer. and i never say that about tuner cars. i like stock best. gearing is most important issues holding cayman back and i doubt porsche will fix that on their own.
i think PDK will solve the gearing issue. don't forget, porsche motorsport never wanted to put a manual in the modern GT's. in the GT3, it was an outcry from (mainly US) enthusiasts. in the GT4, it was to handicap it. i am sure the long gearing was part of that, by design. i doubt the whole world knows something about gearing porsche doesn't, it was simply by design for sales positioning. GT4 RS will show the true capacity of this chassis. it will be a 718 CS with a modified Evo 4.0 and an interior, basically.
I agree with this. The GT4 already has GT/Motorsport suspension l, 5-lugs, and the manual transmission. Adding the roll cage and harnesses after sale in the US is standard practice for GT3s and RSS already, so no difference there. The only thing that it’s down on is power...if you really need that much more for the street.
Watching the GT4 RS videos on the Nurburgring and listening to the shifting, it pretty much guarantees PDK and The wheels to be non-centerlocks. As the RS is to the GT3, I think 440-450hp is probably as much of a bump in hp one should expect (20-30hp).
Once the prices start getting up to GT3 RS territory, I imagine the value of the GT4 Clubsport as a track-dedicated tool becomes more and more appealing. It already seems to be the weapon of choice over a GT3 RS for most track enthusiasts that have a practical way of getting it to and from the track, or track-side storage.
I agree with this. The GT4 already has GT/Motorsport suspension l, 5-lugs, and the manual transmission. Adding the roll cage and harnesses after sale in the US is standard practice for GT3s and RSS already, so no difference there. The only thing that it’s down on is power...if you really need that much more for the street.
Watching the GT4 RS videos on the Nurburgring and listening to the shifting, it pretty much guarantees PDK and The wheels to be non-centerlocks. As the RS is to the GT3, I think 440-450hp is probably as much of a bump in hp one should expect (20-30hp).
Once the prices start getting up to GT3 RS territory, I imagine the value of the GT4 Clubsport as a track-dedicated tool becomes more and more appealing. It already seems to be the weapon of choice over a GT3 RS for most track enthusiasts that have a practical way of getting it to and from the track, or track-side storage.
exactly, and at $150K, a 991.1 GT3 RS is still a better car than a GT4 RS, without even knowing anything about the GT4 RS. for pure track duty, at $150K, i'd take a .1 3RS. at $180K, i'd spend the extra 30K on a 4CS, and that $30K delta would be saved in 2 years by not having to register/insure it, etc.
I for one am hoping that if they offer a Weissach package it'll be cheaper than in ROW since we don't get some of the goodies of it over here due to DOT.
I for one am hoping that if they offer a Weissach package it'll be cheaper than in ROW since we don't get some of the goodies of it over here due to DOT.
Come on man, you know darn well they aren't gonna give us a discount LOLOL
exactly, and at $150K, a 991.1 GT3 RS is still a better car than a GT4 RS, without even knowing anything about the GT4 RS. for pure track duty, at $150K, i'd take a .1 3RS. at $180K, i'd spend the extra 30K on a 4CS, and that $30K delta would be saved in 2 years by not having to register/insure it, etc.
I agree. Before I ordered my PDK GT4 I was actually in the market for 991.1 GT3 and wondered if I should stretch to 150–160K for the 991.1 RS. There were a few good ones that popped up locally, and were quickly snatched away at that price. Pretty awesome value. I think there is some benefit to having a new warranty from factory, but as I understand the 991.1 RS is pretty good overall mechanically.
In the end, I still like the Cayman platform and will look forward to some good track days. Maybe a GT3 RS will be in my future, but it will have to wait. But deep down, I do believe that great track cars don't make good street cars, and for that reason the Clubsport approach is such an appealing package for those with the means.
exactly, and at $150K, a 991.1 GT3 RS is still a better car than a GT4 RS, without even knowing anything about the GT4 RS. for pure track duty, at $150K, i'd take a .1 3RS. at $180K, i'd spend the extra 30K on a 4CS, and that $30K delta would be saved in 2 years by not having to register/insure it, etc.
Believe it or not, but there are states where you are required to register a CS, street driven or not. And insurance, track, might actually be more than regular insurance.
07-20-2020, 01:58 PM
