daveo4porsche

track mode makes things slightly better -not Porsche quality but better - camber/toe and such are fixable with aftermarket parts.

Needsdecaf

Lol, definitely not living under a rock, nor is he worried about losing his gig. Check his back catalog, he has regular access to A. Pruenenger and is definitely a well respected reviewer.

EV noobie? Likely.

Panamera is significantly lighter, unless you are talking about the porky Turbo S E Hybrid.

ChicagoWhale

Watching Catchpole review a Taycan is like watching him pilot a spaceship. Keep in mind, this is a guy with sideburns straight from the Canterbury Tales. He’s all bug-eyed by the "spooky" noises, the instantaneous torque, no gears to change, lamenting gas stations, etc. The look on his face - it’s like he’s both mesmerized and frightened. You might as well lock an Amish guy in a room with an iPhone and watch him poke at it.

I’ve always enjoyed his discussions with AP, but let's be real...he’s a fish out of water with electric cars.

destaccado

Maybe he's just legitimately bored. Acceleration is a one-trick pony that definitely gets old after only a little bit of time. Ever been on Formula Rossa in Ferrari World Abu Dhabi? 0-60 in 2.0 seconds, almost no wait to get on the ride. I think I rode it twice before I was bored.

I get to blast up and down the autobahn with no speed limit and 150+ mph is boring to me now too. I can't even remember the last time I was "stop-light racing."

So beyond the "ludicrous" acceleration what does the Taycan really offer over Porsche's ICE products?

Higher price... Less range... possible 1st gen problems... cheap piano black interior pieces like the 992...

To be frank - the Model 3 Performance seems to be a decent car for $50,000 or what not and you get what you pay for - a nice daily driver to toot around in.

The Taycan is probably a great daily driver but only if you can afford to daily drive a $180,000 car. For a Sunday driver it's probably about as exciting as the look on Catchpole's face seems to suggest. To be frank - why would anyone expect anything different from a 5000+lb sedan?

destaccado

A car is a car. The Taycan is a 5000+lb sedan with a ton of power. It's probably going to drive exactly how we all expect it to which is exactly what Catchpole's review basically shows. In fact, none of the reviews really state anything different other than "it handles the weight well due to the low center of gravity."

I don't care if the car I buy is powered by unicorn farts, petrol, or Greta Thunberg's tears - but I definitely care how many dollars I'm spending per smile. The Taycan doesn't appear to offer nearly enough.

ChicagoWhale

Yes, we all know Destaccado. You have told everyone 800++ times already. You also think the Taycan is just a sporty Chevy Volt [your words] because of the hairpin wires.

You might as well fling a banana into the forum, and I’d consider it equally beneficial to the discussion.

neil.yoshi

Exactly. He's not the target demo. None of the reviewers are.

ipse dixit

Has Mr. Sideburns done a review of the Model 3 (or any Tesla)?

That would be the comparison video for this Taycan review to be put up against.

groundhog

He hasn't but Jethro did a good one on the P100D

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...s_the_model_s/

Both Henry and Jethro are well respected - they certainly have driven a lot of high performance cars and are generally pretty objective (both are ex EVO)

Henry simply wasn't blown away by the Taycan not because it was an electric car but rather because it didn't seem to move him.

destaccado

Honestly, if you flung a banana in here I'd consider it substantially more beneficial than anything you've stated so I'll take what you said as a compliment. Then again, we all know you're connected to the money involved here somehow so no one should really be surprised.

Ironically the first-gen Taycan looks a lot like another electric drive Porsche; the PanzerJaeger Tiger (P). Mostly regarded as a failure due to being overweight, overpriced, and over-engineered. The design was further complicated by the lack of materials due to the war. Ironically, Porsche seemingly lacks the ability to source the top tier battery tech for the Taycan right now as well. I guess the Taycan is just history repeating itself. Like the PanzerJaeger Tiger (P) the Taycan appears to be a really cool engineering development - just not the one I'd choose to buy. If history repeats itself again, they'll probably get the redesign / next-gen correct.

Lastly, I compared the Taycan system with the Chevy Bolt - not the Chevy Volt as you claim are my words. A bit more research and a bit less tossing insults around and you might stop confusing the two

CarMaven

Well, Jethro wasn't blown away by the P100D either.

He felt it didn't handle or feel like an M5 (as an example). He didn't like the stability control (he felt it controlled him). And he felt the steering presented no feeling. He also seemed bored by the numerous 0-whatever videos of it posted online, etc.. He made that very clear.

So, did he feel that way because it was an electric car, or cause he didn't like the P100D?....I do feel there are some similarities (though Jethro seems more open to the idea somewhat).

Despite his criticisms: You get the feeling. Jethro was trying to be polite on the P100D, because it took him so long to review it (something he acknowledged). This is probably cause, he had no great interest to begin with.

Nonetheless, based off what we heard from other reviewers. You get the feeling, Jethro would liked the Taycan better. However, Henry may not have had that prior experience, along with the higher expectations cast upon the Porsche.

Drifting

Interesting.

I personally feel the Model 3 Performance drives and handles much better than the Model S, even the P100D or the current performance version. The model 3 P gives up some straight line speed, but steering is better, car is much smaller and lighter. No Porsche suspension of course, but the M3P is more fun to drive than a model S performance IMO.

I'd love to see a respected auto journalist like Stout, Bovington, or Catchpole review the Tesla Model 3 Performance. It would give some perspective on their Taycan reviews.

ChicagoWhale

Bolt/Volt — doesn’t matter. Either comparison to the Taycan is equally ridiculous.

You were making the claim because of the hairpin wiring design and the fact Porsche sources their batteries from LG Chem.

Sharing the hairpin wiring design means nothing in terms of equating their batteries or their powertrains. Hairpin technology increases the copper density in the stator, which increases the magnetic field and subsequently increases the efficiency of the rotational energy. Likewise, an intercooler increases the oxygen density in a ICE, which increases power output. Both a 2012 Mini Cooper and a GT2RS have intercoolers. Does that make the Mini Cooper and Porsche powertrains the same, similar or remotely close?

Porsche sources their batteries from LG Chem for the same reason they source some tires from Michelin, rather than making their own tires. LG Chem is a world leader in battery production and materials engineering.

In fact, Tesla will use LG Chem for their new, upcoming Gigafactory 3 batteries, as well. Tesla is certainly making efforts to build their own batteries, which is why they recently acquired the Canadian company Hibar Systems. However, for the time being, Tesla is going with LG Chem — just like other manufacturers including Porsche.

ChicagoWhale

..

whiz944

My Model 3 does just fine. My lifetime average consumption, after nearly 18,000 miles, is 244 Wh/mile. With a 75 kWh (usable) pack, that works out to just over 300 miles. I can easily hit Teslas claims, 310-325 miles, if I so desire - if I'd just slow down a bit on the freeway. But like most things, YMMV. There are the three "T"s - Temperature, Terrain, and Technique (including speed) that can affect things. Also things like which wheels/tires, motor configuration, and so on. If I restricted my driving to surface streets, it would be easy to get consumption under 200 Wh/mile.