991 GT2RS
07-22-2017, 06:53 PM
#2972
07-22-2017, 08:15 PM
#2973
Drifting
07-23-2017, 10:35 AM
#2974
As for Nurburgring lap time record [6.11.13] some interesting intel:
The record is from 1983 and belongs to R.I.P. Stefan Bellof who did it driving mighty Porsche 956... what a history
The record is from 1983 and belongs to R.I.P. Stefan Bellof who did it driving mighty Porsche 956... what a history
07-24-2017, 10:59 AM
#2977
Drifting
Cannot fathom the guys that are trying to claim it should cost 500+ from Porsche.
They are priced high enough to limit production but if you want someone to pay 650k but you say "it's not worth more than 150k to you"
Other than a totally stripped 2018 GT3 with a 148k msrp...no cars discussed in this entire subforum are below 150k! GT3RS? Hell even 2016 GT3's with good options are priced over 150. But yeah a 700hp track beast is worth less than those? Ok let me go find some really big salt grains.
They are priced high enough to limit production but if you want someone to pay 650k but you say "it's not worth more than 150k to you"
Other than a totally stripped 2018 GT3 with a 148k msrp...no cars discussed in this entire subforum are below 150k! GT3RS? Hell even 2016 GT3's with good options are priced over 150. But yeah a 700hp track beast is worth less than those? Ok let me go find some really big salt grains.
Porsche is the oddest company of them all - they are not clear with production allocations and allow dealers to order for themselves then charge ADM.
Bottom line - I wouldn't walk in a Porsche dealer today whereas truth honesty and upfront business would have traded in my FF for a Pan Am and picked up a Macan. If it were not for this forum the only Porsche in my garage would have been the CGT. I placed a deposit years ago on a GT2RS and when my local dealer sold they refunded that deposit.
Ferrari limited editions or hard to get models - Tifosi needs to own other models min of three Ferrari's and they check your net worth age lots of things go into their decisions of who gets what then you have Ford GT's allocation process etc.
Porsche wants to play in the 3 - 400k game then be upfront with a sales plan upon introduction. From the outside looking in Porsche enthusiasts are tired of the flippers ADM and that's the rationale of Porsche charging 500k - it's a mess that Porsche is making ... lead follow or get out anything else will bite one in the **** Porsche is playing with fire they are not a small limited company.
Last edited by nuvolari612; 07-24-2017 at 11:17 AM.
07-24-2017, 10:59 AM
#2978
Race Car
Had a good dinner with some friends and came to the conclusion that this is not a car for us:
None of us want to go over the crest before Schwedencreutz at 310kph...
/Not a coward but a NA lover.
None of us want to go over the crest before Schwedencreutz at 310kph...
/Not a coward but a NA lover.
07-24-2017, 11:12 AM
#2979
07-24-2017, 11:16 AM
#2980
I guess I'm a little confused - this thing is likely to set a ring record and with that, the price isn't justified? Because it's a Porsche or because they won't disclose how many cars they'll make or because it "looks like a standard 911"?
I guess it is all good because my chances of getting one goes up!
I guess it is all good because my chances of getting one goes up!
07-24-2017, 11:45 AM
#2984
This is the debacle Porsche has caused with the 918 special treatment and not being clear on production numbers the R is a perfect example as is the GT3RS.2 and other examples.
Porsche is the oddest company of them all - they are not clear with production allocations and allow dealers to order for themselves then charge ADM.
Bottom line - I wouldn't walk in a Porsche dealer today whereas truth honesty and upfront business would have traded in my FF for a Pan Am and picked up a Macan. If it were not for this forum the only Porsche in my garage would have been the CGT. I placed a deposit years ago on a GT2RS and when my local dealer sold they refunded that deposit.
Ferrari limited editions or hard to get models - one needs to own other models min of three Ferrari's and they check your net worth age lots of things go into their decisions of who gets what then you have Ford GT's allocation process etc.
Porsche wants to play in the 3 - 400k game then be upfront with a sales plan upon introduction. From the outside looking in Porsche enthusiasts are tired of the flippers ADM and that's the rationale of Porsche charging 500k - it's a mess that Porsche is making ... lead follow or get out anything else will bite one in the **** Porsche is playing with fire they are not a small limited company.
Porsche is the oddest company of them all - they are not clear with production allocations and allow dealers to order for themselves then charge ADM.
Bottom line - I wouldn't walk in a Porsche dealer today whereas truth honesty and upfront business would have traded in my FF for a Pan Am and picked up a Macan. If it were not for this forum the only Porsche in my garage would have been the CGT. I placed a deposit years ago on a GT2RS and when my local dealer sold they refunded that deposit.
Ferrari limited editions or hard to get models - one needs to own other models min of three Ferrari's and they check your net worth age lots of things go into their decisions of who gets what then you have Ford GT's allocation process etc.
Porsche wants to play in the 3 - 400k game then be upfront with a sales plan upon introduction. From the outside looking in Porsche enthusiasts are tired of the flippers ADM and that's the rationale of Porsche charging 500k - it's a mess that Porsche is making ... lead follow or get out anything else will bite one in the **** Porsche is playing with fire they are not a small limited company.
What's happened in the last few years is not all down to Porsche, it's down to an asset bubble in cars, pumped up by cheap finance and greed. It took Porsche a while to gear up to meet this demand, which continued to accelerate while they caught up. They were getting there anyway, and then along came emissions scandal, and they've been going full tilt ever since!
The 918 program is US only remember, and at the time it came in, the cars wouldn't sell, were expected to depreciate, and cars generally were not seen as a way to make free money (by using free money!).
918 program is now <10% (5%?) of worldwide production of a GT3 or a 3RS, and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being 10% of 2RS as they are going to churn them out. The 918 program is a red-herring when it comes to global Porsche allocations and premiums.
ADM is a US phenomenon only, and I'll bet that it is illegal for Porsche to stop dealers marking up. In RoW, the official dealers can't mark-up, but the secondary market premiums for low mileage cars are even worse! It's the demand that is driving the pricing, and IMO a large chunk of the demand is coming from people who want to make money, or at least not lose it. Nothing wrong with that, but for some it's a primary reason and they will disappear quickly when things turn, and I imagine that isn't far away.
The GT department has become mainstream. It might not be obvious yet, but the difficult bit for Porsche now, is to churn out all of these cars, but still to protect values, and not crash the market. The pendulum is going too far the other way.
Back on the specific topic, the 2RS is being allocated to dealers in multiples of previous similar allocations. I think we are looking at at least 2k cars. Supply has geared up to meet demand, and Porsche is quite simply protecting the demand (on this and others) by not saying "you can all have one", because when they do that, half the orders will disappear in an ironic puff of smoke!
07-24-2017, 01:02 PM
#2985
Drifting
Not sure that's right. Porsche is, as you say, a very large company, and as such they can't turn round on a dime. It is pretty apparent to me, that they have materially increased their production numbers - there are thousands and thousands of 991RS/GT/R cars out there and thousands and thousands to follow. Stop and compare to previous generations (which depreciated!)
What's happened in the last few years is not all down to Porsche, it's down to an asset bubble in cars, pumped up by cheap finance and greed. It took Porsche a while to gear up to meet this demand, which continued to accelerate while they caught up. They were getting there anyway, and then along came emissions scandal, and they've been going full tilt ever since!
The 918 program is US only remember, and at the time it came in, the cars wouldn't sell, were expected to depreciate, and cars generally were not seen as a way to make free money (by using free money!).
918 program is now <10% (5%?) of worldwide production of a GT3 or a 3RS, and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being 10% of 2RS as they are going to churn them out. The 918 program is a red-herring when it comes to global Porsche allocations and premiums.
ADM is a US phenomenon only, and I'll bet that it is illegal for Porsche to stop dealers marking up. In RoW, the official dealers can't mark-up, but the secondary market premiums for low mileage cars are even worse! It's the demand that is driving the pricing, and IMO a large chunk of the demand is coming from people who want to make money, or at least not lose it. Nothing wrong with that, but for some it's a primary reason and they will disappear quickly when things turn, and I imagine that isn't far away.
The GT department has become mainstream. It might not be obvious yet, but the difficult bit for Porsche now, is to churn out all of these cars, but still to protect values, and not crash the market. The pendulum is going too far the other way.
Back on the specific topic, the 2RS is being allocated to dealers in multiples of previous similar allocations. I think we are looking at at least 2k cars. Supply has geared up to meet demand, and Porsche is quite simply protecting the demand (on this and others) by not saying "you can all have one", because when they do that, half the orders will disappear in an ironic puff of smoke!
What's happened in the last few years is not all down to Porsche, it's down to an asset bubble in cars, pumped up by cheap finance and greed. It took Porsche a while to gear up to meet this demand, which continued to accelerate while they caught up. They were getting there anyway, and then along came emissions scandal, and they've been going full tilt ever since!
The 918 program is US only remember, and at the time it came in, the cars wouldn't sell, were expected to depreciate, and cars generally were not seen as a way to make free money (by using free money!).
918 program is now <10% (5%?) of worldwide production of a GT3 or a 3RS, and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being 10% of 2RS as they are going to churn them out. The 918 program is a red-herring when it comes to global Porsche allocations and premiums.
ADM is a US phenomenon only, and I'll bet that it is illegal for Porsche to stop dealers marking up. In RoW, the official dealers can't mark-up, but the secondary market premiums for low mileage cars are even worse! It's the demand that is driving the pricing, and IMO a large chunk of the demand is coming from people who want to make money, or at least not lose it. Nothing wrong with that, but for some it's a primary reason and they will disappear quickly when things turn, and I imagine that isn't far away.
The GT department has become mainstream. It might not be obvious yet, but the difficult bit for Porsche now, is to churn out all of these cars, but still to protect values, and not crash the market. The pendulum is going too far the other way.
Back on the specific topic, the 2RS is being allocated to dealers in multiples of previous similar allocations. I think we are looking at at least 2k cars. Supply has geared up to meet demand, and Porsche is quite simply protecting the demand (on this and others) by not saying "you can all have one", because when they do that, half the orders will disappear in an ironic puff of smoke!
Making more RS R etc is a cluster - no factory does this but Porsche because it's a test and the bean counters have to be shown by sales - this is a bean counter company actions.
It's the same thing Porsche did with the 918 continually sweetening the pot by sales to make the bean counters stroke checks. It's not a matter of 1% or 30% it's the perception.
Again - a simple introduction should include production everyone else does it and it's frustrating and for one to think those frustrations are inefficient all around is naive. Dealers Salespeople buyers reviews everyone is frustrated scroll thru the threads here it's clear as day.
We are car people that follow brands because of the heritage stories - when you have a changing story there is a reason and eventually that reason justifies people to switch being one of those people it's simply how I feel as does anyone who spends money earned that money and doesn't just give it away - 99.99% who state they don't care about money won't have it very long. Understand there are windows of opportunity but those windows are about timing and let's be honest timing / luck runs out.