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In my huble opinion I am sorry to say it, but at times most 911 drivers I meet, even friends that I know well often use that Old argument when I see them on track. They often say this-But I got a 911 and its hard and macho to drive as I got the engine in the reardde48( I kind of wounder, is thats like some excuses for some as they dont carry speed on track I dont know reallydde33) In the end people are free to think what they think and it might be their truth. What I cant stand Is when they try to transfer their own personal thought on to me. Likewise, I should not transfer my opinion on to others. All have valid point, to some a gt3 is the NotreDame hunchback scary widowmaker. To others its just a fast fun car, that also go sidways several laps in the Lidner Hotel roundabout, its just as easy as in my gt4 and in my CSL, different but just as easy! For some scary and will never happen....... thats ok... Anyway, to drive a gt4 at 7.30 btg or down to 7.20btg wich is Porsche factory speed. Then you are forced to often let go of steering to shift mid corner. At the same time you pull some G, this is more fysically hard vs pdk cars. Hence you get warmer, you sweet moredde02 As well mentaly more hard than 2 hands on steering all time. I promise, it is more of a workout as them G force get to you as only one hand on steering mid corner have effect on you-its a long track and 300m height difference on track as well of camber here and there, you feel this things very well here. You get better support back in to seat if always 2 hands on steering-its a long track. Less sweet, less fysically hard. Aswell Mentally and fysically you notice these things when you are having some speed. Grip and downforce and a go-fast-pdk come to play and these things matters. That 991 GT3 RS got downforce like a modern cup car. That is the same as some drivers will use it to their advantage very easy. In the same way others might not make use of that. I know the fast sections on Nur will be less drama and fear if I got downforce like a cup car. Even less drama and fear even higher speed as I can keep 2 hands on the steeringwheel. Only that will make it more easy to me to stay calm on fast sections. I rather go full speed over bump in swedenkrytz in 260 gps in 991 gt3 Rs calm and stable due to big areo than 250+ gps slightly instabile and scary same section in a gt4. There is a reason 991 gt3 Rs got pdk and bigger aero and wider tire, and thats to make it easy to go fast on track. In the opposite way the 911r is not as fast and not as easy as Rs. I dont buy in to car journalist in general, they are who to blame that people in general are still scared of a 911.
Exactly! Very well said!
I normally won't go into discussions about track performance,feel etc...as I'm not an accomplished driver and I don't pretend to be...
But I just couldn't stand when Manifold threw the " GT4 is easier to drive than the 991 GT3 " line! It just blew my mind! It doesn't make sense!
A few things worth mentioned, according to Porsche who developed 991 gt3 and 991 gt3 Rs its only 5 seconds in it between these cars. That is on the Nurburgring.
The downforce in RS and wider stance, and tire is according to German sport auto what kill the gt3. As well grip under load in RS is superior at 1.55 max G vs Gt3 1.45 G. If my translation is correct the torque vectoring funktion PTV Plus and the electronically rear differential is a major factor to gain this traction. Rear steering in RS is more exactly tuned (vs gt3) and as a result RS is more responsiv and stable in lower speeds vs Gt3(according to Holger bartels team leader Porsche performance.)
Porsche with werkstester Timo Kluck and Porsche Jan Frank chassieguru set the tire pressure on the 1461kg sport auto test car (full fuel, ceramic, clubsport and cage, 64l tank and litium batteri) Rs to 1.6 front and 1.8 rear cold pressure wich is sweetspoot at Nur. No curbing while slowly heat tire up. They get warm pressure then at 2.0 front and 2.2 rear. Front grip is very, very god in RS, as well its mentioned as well its very, very calm and stable car over them
Faster scary sections at Nur. Same is told by chassi works driver at BMW about the GTS, is totaly superior and relaxed and calm on them scary fast bumpy sections on Nurburgring. (Nothing like the normal m4, thats no confidence car on same sections) Thats the only way to dare to go really fast here, (aero and mekanical grip and well sorted chassi)
Not many people will find them 5 seconds in a RS anyway, that thing is sure. All in all 2 very fast and solid Go fast cars them gt3:s. Cant really compare gt4 on this fast bumpy track. Them gt3 cars is on an other level to go fast on Nur.
In this pic i let go of gaspedal just when I hit 252km/h (gps 20hz update, true speed)
We all get older and more scared on this track the older we get I guess. Sure its possible to be flat over this bump in a stock GT4.(never seen any higher vmax here in GT4 than 252)
And if you do flugplatz well as I do here vmin 170 (corner before) you hit 252kmh before bump in GT4 as I do here.
Keep flat over bump and if you dare not to brake to hard after bump you could hit 255-258 in GT4 i guess. Not bad on 385hp.
In a 500hp 991 GT3 RS I rather go over this bump in 270kmh and it will be less drama than 255 in GT4. Sure braking after will be slightly more of a challenge in 270 but braking traction in RS is up for it. Factory driver do flat over in RS at 270 at this spot.
Remember this bump make plenty of cars rollover to total destruction of cars every year at Nur. They rolled here since back in the days-and cars will keep on flip roll to total destruction forever. Even its no as bumpy on Nur these days. They keep smothing track out every year. To dangersus
Here and on many, many sections of Nur big aero and alot of rubber is what make it more easy.
Keep flat over bump and if you dare not to brake to hard after bump you could hit 255-258 in GT4 i guess. Not bad on 385hp.
Certainly not. Impressive!
I'm working with my self now to cary more speed over the jump in the RS and thru the fast left hander. But as always when adding speed you have to reduce speed somewhere else. So the braking in Aremberg is getting trickier. Better do it in small increments.
Compared to my 997.1 GT3 the 991 RS adds marginal for error.
When I drive a little too fast with the GT3 over the jump the car starts to bounce and there is not much left for the braking before the left hander. Exciting, yes. Rather not do that to often.
In CSL i was flat all over bump(sure only 360hp), did reach higher vmax then compared to now in gt4. Due to I am more scared nowdays, hence not flat over bump in gt4. But It can be done for sure. Thing is, one need not to panik brake after bump if flat over bump. Still most tend to do. Then again not many are flat over this bump even i lowpower cars, even less in big HP cars like gt3/m4 etc. Still, flat over or not, many brake to much after bump. Many panik brake just leaving bump, no god, better stay cool brake slowly futher on.
Its a long safe braking area after and One accually dont need to brake that hard after bump even if 260 speed, just slightly and gearing down. Them braking to hard here do it as a reason they dont dare to bring speed in to Swedenx of camber lefthander. Nothing wrong in that, scary bend!
I would say most brake way to much after bump. Still better safe than sorry👍🏻
This if after bump seen from other side than my gt4 pick.
In CSL i was flat all over bump(sure only 360hp), did reach higher vmax then compared to now in gt4.
You get a really good drive out of Flügplatz. Now they have taken the Flüg ot of Flügplatz: It is really weird driving Quiddelbacher Höhe now: It is very smooth.
Much easier to drive faster.
I guess if you drove your GT4 there today you would have really good speed at Schwedenkreutz.
As you say,
I am sure that section way faster now when the flight jump is taken out of track.
No speed limit on sport auto gt4 lap, old flight jump up to flugplatz still there. 50kg lighter gt4 and they got Vmin flugplatz 173( my Vmin 169 same place, speedlimit on track in 50kg more pork gt4. Next bump swedenx sport auto reach Vmax 252. (My Vmax is also 252 with 50kg more pork)
No speed limit on sport auto gt4 lap, old flight jump up to flugplatz still there. 50kg lighter gt4 and they got Vmin flugplatz 173( my Vmin 169 same place, speedlimit on track in 50kg more pork gt4. Next bump swedenx sport auto reach Vmax 252. (My Vmax is also 252 with 50kg more pork)
I'm a die hard M car owner as well, and I do agree the F30/80 annoyed with the turbo engine, but for some reason I am excited about the GTS on a path that the GT3 went the opposite way on. Everyone has their opinion....
Only thing wrong with GTS besides styling is price. My criticism was targeted at direction of recent pre-GTS M offerings - too much sledge hammer, not enough scalpel. Maybe the M2 is BMW trying to find its way back to what made M cars unique and special. Certainly hope so.
I got a White One, but I could see my selfe to sell it:-) ( just kidding) .. But at last the gt4 from manthey-racing is out. And, its now on propper 3 way KW suspension (like m4 Gts :-)
This is the same gt4 car I coverd in my gt4 thread.
This is now an other car, the gt4 is now in M4 GTS speed and not as understeery anylonger👍👏
Only thing wrong with GTS besides styling is price. My criticism was targeted at direction of recent pre-GTS M offerings - too much sledge hammer, not enough scalpel. Maybe the M2 is BMW trying to find its way back to what made M cars unique and special. Certainly hope so.
05-13-2016, 02:38 PM
