I wonder if Porsche dealers have gone too far?
The following users liked this post:
997turbocab (08-06-2024)
08-04-2024 | 12:46 PM
#64
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 106
Likes: 69
My relationship with Porsche, similar to a lot here, It goes back decades, long before I actually owned one. I was finally able to buy my first Porsche in the mid 90s and honestly the experience was great. I lived in California at the time, and the dealership I dealt with was pleasant to deal with, and this was before the corporatization of the entire automotive industry.
Over time, I feel that the 'relationship' has gone from being mutually beneficial, to one where, at least for people interested in sports cars, the dealer holds all the cards. In its current state, I have no interest in attempting to buy a new car. I cringe when I watch videos with Andreas Preuninger talking about 'our customers', as I am not sure who he is referring to. The 918 customer, friends of dealer principals, people who buy 9 cars a year? It is certainly not me.
I have resolved myself to thoroughly enjoying the cars I have, realizing if I am interested in a car, I am either going to have to play their ridiculous games, or buy one someone else ordered and flipped, paying the premium. In my mind, since the shift that occurred with Porsche as a company, probably well into the recovery from the 2007 - 09 recession (I remember looking at a manual 997 GT3 that PFAFF was asking $90K for in 2011) Porsche has been on a mission to become Ferrari.
Although I enjoy looking at Ferraris I have never felt the desire to own one, the BS moat is too broad for my liking, be it purchasing, or servicing, and Porsche is well on their way to becoming the brand they dreamt they could be.
I have already decided my next car is going to be a Miata, I would probably buy a 992.2 GT3, especially if I could do European Delivery, but that is crazy talk!
As far as service goes, I have always felt like I am bothering them, and they are doing me a favor. I now do all my own routine maintenance. One of the things I have always liked about Porsches is the engineering for the important stuff is amazing, making them reasonably reliable cars. At this point the only reason I would go to a dealer is if something under warrantee grenade-ed.
Weirdly, the car that I had the best experience with, both from a sales standpoint, and service in recent memory was a Ford Focus RS.
Over time, I feel that the 'relationship' has gone from being mutually beneficial, to one where, at least for people interested in sports cars, the dealer holds all the cards. In its current state, I have no interest in attempting to buy a new car. I cringe when I watch videos with Andreas Preuninger talking about 'our customers', as I am not sure who he is referring to. The 918 customer, friends of dealer principals, people who buy 9 cars a year? It is certainly not me.
I have resolved myself to thoroughly enjoying the cars I have, realizing if I am interested in a car, I am either going to have to play their ridiculous games, or buy one someone else ordered and flipped, paying the premium. In my mind, since the shift that occurred with Porsche as a company, probably well into the recovery from the 2007 - 09 recession (I remember looking at a manual 997 GT3 that PFAFF was asking $90K for in 2011) Porsche has been on a mission to become Ferrari.
Although I enjoy looking at Ferraris I have never felt the desire to own one, the BS moat is too broad for my liking, be it purchasing, or servicing, and Porsche is well on their way to becoming the brand they dreamt they could be.
I have already decided my next car is going to be a Miata, I would probably buy a 992.2 GT3, especially if I could do European Delivery, but that is crazy talk!
As far as service goes, I have always felt like I am bothering them, and they are doing me a favor. I now do all my own routine maintenance. One of the things I have always liked about Porsches is the engineering for the important stuff is amazing, making them reasonably reliable cars. At this point the only reason I would go to a dealer is if something under warrantee grenade-ed.
Weirdly, the car that I had the best experience with, both from a sales standpoint, and service in recent memory was a Ford Focus RS.
Last edited by lee_337; 08-04-2024 at 12:59 PM.
08-04-2024 | 01:36 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 229
From: Montreal, Quebekistan
It seems to me that these threads tend to wander off into political discussion that lead exactly nowhere. I thought it was about dealers going too far.
The usual discussion is that Canada is a terrible place going bankrupt and presumably everyone is going to leave if it's that bad, or that we are already in debt and cannot reverse out in a flash.
Whatever.
When there is election we can each exercise our right to vote and then we will live with the consequences until we vote again. The only other options are to mount a revolution or to leave. Neither of these options is realistically what I am intending. I can live in the US or the EU at will, so am not trapped in Canada. I am personally not a Trudeau fan and will vote accordingly but in the end this is a pretty decent place to live, There is a lot of misinformation here about the terrible Canadian health care/ wonderful US health care which is just hysterical nonsense. I am married to am American and spend lots of time at the AZ home, lots of friends the US. Of course, if you are prepared to pay you can get good health care in the US, but I am very well aware many people who are delaying retirement so they can benefit from Medicare for instance. Of course wealthy people or those with great medical coverage from their jobs do fine ( until they leave). Fact is Canadians live longer than Americans so somethnig must be working.
Canadian health care is far from perfect and worse than it used to be. No doubt. However it is far from the comparative disaster that some will portray. Certainly non critical surgery can be a long wait.
As for Trudeau, he was elected in a normal election. In my own view he has not been a success, and therefore will likely suffer the consequences but we need to temper expectations for the next government.
The accumulated debt will not go away, the interest on that debt will not magically disappear, and there are some massive demographic challenges coming. Lots of old people like me and few millennials who may righty resent the burden of nonproductive retirees who will doubtless need medical care for instance. Pension funds will be stressed with fewer contributors . We will need to find better answers to encourage enterpreneurs to stay once a company reaches critical mass. I have been on the boards of quite a few companies in the tech sector which were small caps and in most cases we did deals with US companies to take them to the next stage of growth.
Anyway , have the dealers gone to far?.....that is the question.
The usual discussion is that Canada is a terrible place going bankrupt and presumably everyone is going to leave if it's that bad, or that we are already in debt and cannot reverse out in a flash.
Whatever.
When there is election we can each exercise our right to vote and then we will live with the consequences until we vote again. The only other options are to mount a revolution or to leave. Neither of these options is realistically what I am intending. I can live in the US or the EU at will, so am not trapped in Canada. I am personally not a Trudeau fan and will vote accordingly but in the end this is a pretty decent place to live, There is a lot of misinformation here about the terrible Canadian health care/ wonderful US health care which is just hysterical nonsense. I am married to am American and spend lots of time at the AZ home, lots of friends the US. Of course, if you are prepared to pay you can get good health care in the US, but I am very well aware many people who are delaying retirement so they can benefit from Medicare for instance. Of course wealthy people or those with great medical coverage from their jobs do fine ( until they leave). Fact is Canadians live longer than Americans so somethnig must be working.
Canadian health care is far from perfect and worse than it used to be. No doubt. However it is far from the comparative disaster that some will portray. Certainly non critical surgery can be a long wait.
As for Trudeau, he was elected in a normal election. In my own view he has not been a success, and therefore will likely suffer the consequences but we need to temper expectations for the next government.
The accumulated debt will not go away, the interest on that debt will not magically disappear, and there are some massive demographic challenges coming. Lots of old people like me and few millennials who may righty resent the burden of nonproductive retirees who will doubtless need medical care for instance. Pension funds will be stressed with fewer contributors . We will need to find better answers to encourage enterpreneurs to stay once a company reaches critical mass. I have been on the boards of quite a few companies in the tech sector which were small caps and in most cases we did deals with US companies to take them to the next stage of growth.
Anyway , have the dealers gone to far?.....that is the question.
lets understand this. Debt is through the roof, crime rate is soaring, parks look like campgrounds, young canadians cant find work let alone afford housing, productivity is at an all time low. Shall I continue? The only thing the LPC has done in a decade is fracture a country and spend into oblivion
However aside from that is life expectancy has gone up massively since things such as healthcare and pension plans were introduced. Whereas lets say the draw on them was only decade 50-55 years ago now that draw is Decades for a population that is growing rapidly.
Last edited by Gregster; 08-04-2024 at 01:40 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Gregster:
KILOFINAL (08-06-2024),
ronnie993tt (08-08-2024)
08-04-2024 | 03:10 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,874
Likes: 1,640
From: Calgary, Canada
In response to the original question...the closer the Porsche Mothership and its dealers move to the Ferrari model, the less interested I am in the company, its products and the experience of acquiring and owning a new Porsche. When the "luxury goods" market hits the next downcycle (there are signs that's already happening), Porsche might wish it hadn't so flippantly maginalized its historically loyal, core market. These days, I rarely look at - or am tempted by - new Porsches; despite having owned and thoroughly enjoyed a 992.1, it's the 991 and 981 generations I now find most interesting.
08-04-2024 | 03:44 PM
#67
Instructor
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 131
Likes: 50
From: Victoria
If you are (ahem) old enough to remember what simply joyful things Porsches were in the 70s and 80s you really owe it to yourself to drive this year's tweaked Miata. It is pure, laugh-out-load joy and at the price point you can afford to have one sitting in the back of the garage just for the days you need a little pick-me-up. And it will never, ever, EVER break down.......
The following users liked this post:
LastMezger (08-09-2024)
08-04-2024 | 08:15 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,619
Likes: 1,091
From: Rainforest (Vancouver, BC)
I have to say that the two dealers I've dealt with locally (Porsche Centre Langley and Porsche Centre Victoria) have been nothing but honest, up front, and transparent in the two years I've dealt with them for two car purchases and some servicing. Although I did end up declining my allocation for a Carrera T (changed from the GTS once the T was announced) earlier this year, it was for reasons far removed from the dealers' actions. I was permitted to order the car in any fashion I desired (zero options or $50K worth, didn't matter) but with the new fed tax it was just more than I could justify. Is the servicing cheaper at an independent shop? Of course it is. But I have found a willingness to negotiate slightly on parts prices when presented with online comparisons.
Having said that, there were simply too many flippers in the market for the last several years and that, I'm convinced, could have serious consequences in the future. I for one have decided to step away from the notion of purchasing my first "brand new" 911 until some semblance of reality returns. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm out to lunch. Either way, I can't justify the roughly $200K it takes to purchase a lightly optioned Carrera T once the dust has settled. I'll stick with what I have for now and enjoy every drive.
Having said that, there were simply too many flippers in the market for the last several years and that, I'm convinced, could have serious consequences in the future. I for one have decided to step away from the notion of purchasing my first "brand new" 911 until some semblance of reality returns. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm out to lunch. Either way, I can't justify the roughly $200K it takes to purchase a lightly optioned Carrera T once the dust has settled. I'll stick with what I have for now and enjoy every drive.
Last edited by timothymoffat; 08-04-2024 at 08:17 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Onami (08-04-2024)
08-05-2024 | 03:24 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 359
Likes: 111
I found a stain on my wheels so I told the Porsche service rep.
He said, oh it must have been the polish they used.
They tried. Failed.
The Porsche service rep said it must be some kind of special finish.
I said yes they're Fuchs. They're anodized aluminum.
The Porsche service rep said, "What are Fuchs?"
He said, oh it must have been the polish they used.
They tried. Failed.
The Porsche service rep said it must be some kind of special finish.
I said yes they're Fuchs. They're anodized aluminum.
The Porsche service rep said, "What are Fuchs?"
08-06-2024 | 08:08 PM
#71
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 116
Likes: 47
From: GTA Ontario
08-07-2024 | 02:17 PM
#72
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,224
Likes: 1,177
From: Cambridge Ontario Canada
It seems to me that these threads tend to wander off into political discussion that lead exactly nowhere. I thought it was about dealers going too far.
The usual discussion is that Canada is a terrible place going bankrupt and presumably everyone is going to leave if it's that bad, or that we are already in debt and cannot reverse out in a flash.
Whatever.
When there is election we can each exercise our right to vote and then we will live with the consequences until we vote again. The only other options are to mount a revolution or to leave. Neither of these options is realistically what I am intending. I can live in the US or the EU at will, so am not trapped in Canada. I am personally not a Trudeau fan and will vote accordingly but in the end this is a pretty decent place to live, There is a lot of misinformation here about the terrible Canadian health care/ wonderful US health care which is just hysterical nonsense. I am married to am American and spend lots of time at the AZ home, lots of friends the US. Of course, if you are prepared to pay you can get good health care in the US, but I am very well aware many people who are delaying retirement so they can benefit from Medicare for instance. Of course wealthy people or those with great medical coverage from their jobs do fine ( until they leave). Fact is Canadians live longer than Americans so somethnig must be working.
Canadian health care is far from perfect and worse than it used to be. No doubt. However it is far from the comparative disaster that some will portray. Certainly non critical surgery can be a long wait.
As for Trudeau, he was elected in a normal election. In my own view he has not been a success, and therefore will likely suffer the consequences but we need to temper expectations for the next government.
The accumulated debt will not go away, the interest on that debt will not magically disappear, and there are some massive demographic challenges coming. Lots of old people like me and few millennials who may righty resent the burden of nonproductive retirees who will doubtless need medical care for instance. Pension funds will be stressed with fewer contributors . We will need to find better answers to encourage enterpreneurs to stay once a company reaches critical mass. I have been on the boards of quite a few companies in the tech sector which were small caps and in most cases we did deals with US companies to take them to the next stage of growth.
Anyway , have the dealers gone to far?.....that is the question.
The usual discussion is that Canada is a terrible place going bankrupt and presumably everyone is going to leave if it's that bad, or that we are already in debt and cannot reverse out in a flash.
Whatever.
When there is election we can each exercise our right to vote and then we will live with the consequences until we vote again. The only other options are to mount a revolution or to leave. Neither of these options is realistically what I am intending. I can live in the US or the EU at will, so am not trapped in Canada. I am personally not a Trudeau fan and will vote accordingly but in the end this is a pretty decent place to live, There is a lot of misinformation here about the terrible Canadian health care/ wonderful US health care which is just hysterical nonsense. I am married to am American and spend lots of time at the AZ home, lots of friends the US. Of course, if you are prepared to pay you can get good health care in the US, but I am very well aware many people who are delaying retirement so they can benefit from Medicare for instance. Of course wealthy people or those with great medical coverage from their jobs do fine ( until they leave). Fact is Canadians live longer than Americans so somethnig must be working.
Canadian health care is far from perfect and worse than it used to be. No doubt. However it is far from the comparative disaster that some will portray. Certainly non critical surgery can be a long wait.
As for Trudeau, he was elected in a normal election. In my own view he has not been a success, and therefore will likely suffer the consequences but we need to temper expectations for the next government.
The accumulated debt will not go away, the interest on that debt will not magically disappear, and there are some massive demographic challenges coming. Lots of old people like me and few millennials who may righty resent the burden of nonproductive retirees who will doubtless need medical care for instance. Pension funds will be stressed with fewer contributors . We will need to find better answers to encourage enterpreneurs to stay once a company reaches critical mass. I have been on the boards of quite a few companies in the tech sector which were small caps and in most cases we did deals with US companies to take them to the next stage of growth.
Anyway , have the dealers gone to far?.....that is the question.
08-07-2024 | 03:05 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 805
Likes: 94
From: Traffic Court
The following 2 users liked this post by red996:
LastMezger (08-09-2024),
ronnie993tt (08-08-2024)
08-08-2024 | 12:03 PM
#74
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,573
Likes: 221
From: Toronto, north of the lake.
I have never even looked at a Miata...until now. That RF is a beautiful car. But the idea of going to an electric steering rack...the cars I have driven with one were terrible.
I just rented an X5 for a week in BC. Terrible. Even in "Sport" mode, it was not confidence inspiring on any of the mountain highways. I don't understand why anyone would buy one.
Also: my experience with Porsche dealerships has been limited to the parts department, and various cars and coffees. The former has been good, the latter seems to have gone they way of the Dodo (IE killed off by irresponsible people).
I just rented an X5 for a week in BC. Terrible. Even in "Sport" mode, it was not confidence inspiring on any of the mountain highways. I don't understand why anyone would buy one.
Also: my experience with Porsche dealerships has been limited to the parts department, and various cars and coffees. The former has been good, the latter seems to have gone they way of the Dodo (IE killed off by irresponsible people).
08-08-2024 | 01:27 PM
#75
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,063
Likes: 559
I have never even looked at a Miata...until now. That RF is a beautiful car. But the idea of going to an electric steering rack...the cars I have driven with one were terrible.
I just rented an X5 for a week in BC. Terrible. Even in "Sport" mode, it was not confidence inspiring on any of the mountain highways. I don't understand why anyone would buy one.
Also: my experience with Porsche dealerships has been limited to the parts department, and various cars and coffees. The former has been good, the latter seems to have gone they way of the Dodo (IE killed off by irresponsible people).
I just rented an X5 for a week in BC. Terrible. Even in "Sport" mode, it was not confidence inspiring on any of the mountain highways. I don't understand why anyone would buy one.
Also: my experience with Porsche dealerships has been limited to the parts department, and various cars and coffees. The former has been good, the latter seems to have gone they way of the Dodo (IE killed off by irresponsible people).