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In the final year Lewis had two failures leading late in the race. Would have been a much bigger margin. Hardly a wash. And still more indicative than counting overall points.
Rosberg is underrated but he hardly had the measure of Lewis this season. Lewis was clearly better on track during the race. With two reliable cars i think most would agree that Lewis would have run away with the championship. He won 10 races in spite of.
Exactly. There wouldn't have been an issue with double points in Abu Dhabil had Lewis's car been more reliable during the season.
In my other forums, I kept stating that Rosberg is not the racer that Lewis is. He is a good qualifier, but LH is the better racer.
“There’s been a lot of strong points which I can build on for next year. It was very close between Lewis and I but I need to work on the racing a little bit. I’ve been better as a qualifier for the last two years so that is something I can really build on. I need to find a little bit in the racing and I am going to find a little bit," he conceded.
It's nice to see some of those who thought Hamilton dumb to move to Mercedes revising their view and in a few cases admitting they got it wrong. Just the reaction I had hoped to have in resurrecting this thread.
Glad to see Mercedes put real effort into the new car. Hope Honda puts similar effort into its motor. There was never any question that Mercedes was, and Honda is, CAPABLE of doing so.
Must be hard for Christian Horner ths year--what a comeuppance!
Ill admit as a fanboy that i thought it was a horrible move as well. But i always leave room for the stuff fans and media never know. Just hoped he made the right decision which he clearly did.
Thread could have been revived last year though given that Lewis scored well over 100 points more than Jenson and they are somehow equal drivers now.
Using the same logic, what's that say about Vettel's move?
You're right. These are all multi-million dollar decisions and are not being made in a vacuum.
I say Vettel will suffer (if you can call being a Ferrari pilot suffering!).
Ferrari is in disarray with nothing but turnover on the horizon.
McLaren, on the other hand, is bringing Honda on board.
We've seen what they can do.
Ill admit as a fanboy that i thought it was a horrible move as well. But i always leave room for the stuff fans and media never know. Just hoped he made the right decision which he clearly did.
Thread could have been revived last year though given that Lewis scored well over 100 points more than Jenson and they are somehow equal drivers now.
Perhaps reading comprehension is not where your strengths lie so I'll make it more clear... Hamilton and Button were more equal than many would have thought they would be while at McLaren with Jenson scoring more points overall in 3 years and each splitting with more points in 1 season each and the third only producing a difference of 2 points over the course of an entire year. The disparity in perception being that Hamilton was his own worse enemy in terms of how he handled things. Today, Hamilton is a much more complete driver than Button because of the maturation process he has under the new management of his affairs both on and off track as well as getting away from the cancer known as Ron Dennis.
People love to look at things from a perception point of view of a driver being better than the other, but over the course of an entire year, the only thing that matters is your statistical results... that's how we keep score people and crown champions!!! The people that say Hamilton was so much better than Button while on the same team are just blind to the fact that the 3 year statistical sample when head to head do not bear this out. The excuses abound that Jenson is better on tires or other reasons, but last I checked a race driver is supposed to manage his tires in a race and if Jenson is better at it then he is better. Why can't his teammate do the same if he is better? The answer is because he is not a complete driver. He's fast because he uses up his tires quicker than others.
Look at how Hamilton managed not only his tires, but his fuel consumption this year. Better than everyone else on the grid which makes him better, right? and the results bear that out.
The exception seems to be Alonso. He is perceived to be better than Kimi and had the results to back it up. Vettel was far better than Webber, but several thought that wasnt' the case. Of course, this year, those same folks are happy to say that Ricciardo is better than Vettel and who could argue because of the points differential and discount the fact that Vettel had a ton of mechanical problems.
Button and Vergne have almost triple the amount of points are their teammates, but it's Button that might be out at McLaren and Kyvat got the RBR seat that Vettel is vacating.... Now Kyvat's billionaire dad might have something to do with that move, but why would Button be the one on the move if you're introducing a brand new engine package in the next year? Makes no sense unless the connection of Ron Dennis and Kevin's father has more weight than that of a seasoned driver.
Disclaimer: Not a Button fanboy but like Rosberg, I believe he is being short changed given he has had to adapt to many rule changes in his career and many different engine formulas of V10, V8 and turbo powered cars, traction control and no traction control, KERS, ERS, etc.
Perhaps reading comprehension is not where your strengths lie so I'll make it more clear... Hamilton and Button were more equal than many would have thought they would be while at McLaren with Jenson scoring more points overall in 3 years and each splitting with more points in 1 season each and the third only producing a difference of 2 points over the course of an entire year. The disparity in perception being that Hamilton was his own worse enemy in terms of how he handled things. Today, Hamilton is a much more complete driver than Button because of the maturation process he has under the new management of his affairs both on and off track as well as getting away from the cancer known as Ron Dennis.
People love to look at things from a perception point of view of a driver being better than the other, but over the course of an entire year, the only thing that matters is your statistical results... that's how we keep score people and crown champions!!! The people that say Hamilton was so much better than Button while on the same team are just blind to the fact that the 3 year statistical sample when head to head do not bear this out. The excuses abound that Jenson is better on tires or other reasons, but last I checked a race driver is supposed to manage his tires in a race and if Jenson is better at it then he is better. Why can't his teammate do the same if he is better? The answer is because he is not a complete driver. He's fast because he uses up his tires quicker than others.
Look at how Hamilton managed not only his tires, but his fuel consumption this year. Better than everyone else on the grid which makes him better, right? and the results bear that out.
The exception seems to be Alonso. He is perceived to be better than Kimi and had the results to back it up. Vettel was far better than Webber, but several thought that wasnt' the case. Of course, this year, those same folks are happy to say that Ricciardo is better than Vettel and who could argue because of the points differential and discount the fact that Vettel had a ton of mechanical problems.
Button and Vergne have almost triple the amount of points are their teammates, but it's Button that might be out at McLaren and Kyvat got the RBR seat that Vettel is vacating.... Now Kyvat's billionaire dad might have something to do with that move, but why would Button be the one on the move if you're introducing a brand new engine package in the next year? Makes no sense unless the connection of Ron Dennis and Kevin's father has more weight than that of a seasoned driver.
Disclaimer: Not a Button fanboy but like Rosberg, I believe he is being short changed given he has had to adapt to many rule changes in his career and many different engine formulas of V10, V8 and turbo powered cars, traction control and no traction control, KERS, ERS, etc.
You went through all of that nonsense to say what?
You left out the most important statistic. Lewis 2 Jenson 1
I may not be best at comprehension but i wont get lost in your hogwash.
Lewis had 3 races nullified with 0 points while heading to a suee victory. That would not only have wiped out your overall stat but made at least 2 seasons well into double digits gaps back to button.
Besides, there was actually watching the races where anyone can SEE who is the better driver.
But feel free to keep avoiding the real info. Sugesstions are lame.
Dont let your bias prevent you from making a decent point.
Besides, there was actually watching the races where anyone can SEE who is the better driver.
I think this is actually the key point that hurts Button.
What do we remember about races? What stands out? I think it's the big, around-the-outside, two-wheels-in-the-grass, passes. Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel, and Alonso all try them regularly, and when they come off well, we call them a genius. And when they don't come off, perhaps we forget about it, or even credit them with "having large attachments", to use a Hobbsism.
Among the current crop of drivers, if I wanted someone to get 101% out of a car, I'd choose Alonso, as he has gotten more out of the Ferrari than it was capable of delivering consistently. OK, sometimes he's going to fail and get 0% out of the car, but if you are low in the points (e.g. running 7th), why not gamble for something higher?
On the other hand, if I had the best car on the grid, Jenson would be a great pick-- he consistently delivers 99%, race in, race out. From a team perspective, that's probably what you want. From a fan perspective, he loses out because he's not trying the flashy pass every race. So our perception is that he is not a "great" driver, only a "good" one. Even though the statistics show he was more consistent than Hamilton in the three years they raced each other. (BTW, I do think Hamilton is a better driver today than he was at that point-- certainly he has matured).
On the other hand, if I had the best car on the grid, Jenson would be a great pick-- he consistently delivers 99%, race in, race out. From a team perspective, that's probably what you want. From a fan perspective, he loses out because he's not trying the flashy pass every race.
+1 (or Raikkonnen. Similar style; not the quickest but quick enough for WDC and (barring Force majeure) will always finish with everything in one piece)
Lewis won 11 races to Rosberg's 5. Personally, I think Hamilton and Alonso are the two best racers on the grid. Followed by Rosberg and Riccardo. Alonso got blood from a stone at Ferrari and had a crappy car in the hunt for the championship on two occasions.
Nearly 1.4 seconds ahead of both Williams and Ferrari and two full seconds ahead of the RedBool. Effectively the only three cars with a shot of winning a thing.
McLaren will be starting from the Hotel parking lot.
11-25-2014, 10:56 AM
Hamilton and Button were more equal than many would have thought they would be while at McLaren with Jenson scoring more points overall in 3 years and each splitting with more points in 1 season each and the third only producing a difference of 2 points over the course of an entire year. The disparity in perception being that Hamilton was his own worse enemy in terms of how he handled things. Today, Hamilton is a much more complete driver than Button because of the maturation process he has under the new management of his affairs both on and off track as well as getting away from the cancer known as Ron Dennis. 
and the results bear that out. 
