Doug007

It's a track INSPIRED street car... Marketing doesn't matter, warranties and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration do.

I don't think you'll get very far claiming they have liability for on-track incidents

Bob Rouleau

Does anyone reading this thread think that the design of the coolant conduits and hoses on the GT1 derived engine is sound?

Doug007

They obviously aren't sound if they are failing...

The question is whether Porsche has an obligation beyond fixing them under warranty when they fail.

jcb-memphis

If they kill people or cause crashes that are sudden, severe, and something that expert drivers (like PCA HPDE instructors) cannot control...like the chief instructor of OVR...yes.

911SLOW

Mine did.
I can vouch for 3 more (street) incidents.

eric523

Been a known weak point on the car for many years now. All cars have their weak points, and that's just the nature of running street cars on the race track. Fix the issue on your car AND run water and water wetter if you plan to go to the race track.
PCA, or any other organization should have the right to have the cars tech'd as they see fit. They have to protect themselves, and the other entrants at the track. I've witnessed plenty of the failures and local track days and it's a PITA to clean up, and does certainly pose a threat to safety.
My indy charges $1700 for the parts and labor to complete the job. PCNA won't pay for it, just like many other problems with street cars taken to the race track, especially when they are 10 year old models like the 996TT.
Personally, I get really annoyed when people dump coolant on the race track. It's unsafe, and shouldn't be on the track when a cheap substitute like water and water wetter is available to them. Don't ruin my track day because you don't want the inconvenience of running water and water wetter. I can drive in heavy rain, I can drive through your water wetter, but nobody can drive through your coolant. It's your responsibility to your fellow competitors to make the right choice.

jcb-memphis

If you buy a gt3rs, it should be able to handle DE...without a 1700 fix...

I agree with all points eric523 made, btw. One question...if you hit water in a corner NOT expecting it, how bad will that be.....


Jeff

Renn 951

Good question, Jeff. In the June 2011 Excellence (Tech Forum) they addressed whether Water Wetter provides an acceptable solution to the GT1 engine coolant fittings issue. They cite a technical paper published by Red Line (makers of Water Wetter) which concluded that a surface covered with plain water or a 3 percent Water Wetter solution will reduce friction relative to dry pavement by 50 percent. With a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water the friction is reduced by another 5-15 percent.

So yes, Water Wetter is not as slippery as anitfreeze, but it's a somewhat marginal improvement, and if ANY coolant is dumped where tires are being worked near their dry pavement limit the car is still going off.

From the track management's standpoint, I have heard that they prefer Water Wetter because they can clean it up faster than an antifreeze dump.

M758

Right... And I question the entire safety issue of it. Any mechanical failure on a track is dangerious and I don't know how any street car manufacture can be responsible for failures on track cars. Even a GT3 is designed as a road car first. They fact it does not break in the first 15 minutes of being on track is great sign. Beyond that you are pretty much on your own. Tracking a car should not void the warrenty, but most due to bad press vs any legal obligation.

M758

The same if you hit oil or gravel. The track is dangerious and despite all the best efforts of corner workers and even staff it cannot be complete stantized. Just driving on the track can cause you fly off track and ball up your car and yourself.

Any car at any time can puke any fluid. Or what happens if it just a simple spin right in front if you and you have "not place to go". That is why race cars have thousands in safety gear.. Just incase something happens.


The advantage of water wetter is simply for clean up. Cleaing coolant is like cleaning up oil. A long messy job. Still just about every track weekend you may see a crew doing oil clean up. When it happens you just hope the guy did not oil down the entire track. Hey last october I had motor blow up on me. Not bearing spin, but a piston exploed. Needless to say I oiled down part of the track. There was probalby a 200-300 yard length of track on line of course of mixture of 3 qts of oil and engine parts. That is even when I got off track as soon as I could. Clean up took 20 mintues. At least it was an open test day so no significant impact on the other 5 guys at the track.

Point is this stuff happens.

wanna911

I'm perfectly ok with giving them a big media headache. It's worth the effort for them to at the least fix the issue on newer cars so that people showing up to the track are not a hazzard to themselves or others.

They deserve every bit of bad press they get on this issue. Motorsports is what makes Porsche special. Otherwise they wouldn't be involved in so many racing series all over the place.

Porsche took a stock GT3 RS and ran the 24 hrs of Nurburgring with it. Track inspired my behind, they look to capitalize on the fact that Porsche's, inspite of their costs, are probably the most populous marquee on the track around the world (aside from pinatas). Not only that you step into any dealership and their are videos playing of their racing heritage.

A PR nightmare is what they deserve.

Gary R.

If you posted here and don't have this addressed after knowing full well the possible consequences I would say that is pure negligence and I bet a court would agree if it came to it...

bauerjab

Spoken like a true lawyer! I knew you had it in you.

blake

+1. And that is the point. I am not saying I think it is just or fair, but that is the state of the current legal system in this country.

jcb-memphis

+2.

I could go out, drop 200k on a new 4.0rs, and still have this happen. Amazing. You'd thinkn there was some profit in there to fix this....




jeff