Mahler9th

944 family cars with aluminum front control arms... ball joint failure on the track. Major sanctioning body requires Fabcar arms

993 wiring harness failures and accidents and fires.

944 oil and water mixing due to a seal, then head gasket and cooling system failures at the track with coolant dumped (happened to me at Blackhawk Farms in the 80's).

I think Porsche AG and PCNA know what they are doing when it comes to this stuff... they are running their business.

What is wrong with water wetter and distilled water? I used it in a water cooled car 10+ years ago.

If I had one of these newer cars, and I wanted to get mine fixed, I might make a relationship with my local dealer service department. I did that with respect to the wiring harness in my 993 years ago. They agreed to replace it at no charge, before the recall happened. PCNA paid.

In these times, I would absolutely, positively make sure the PCA tech committee knew about this. Their leader is my friend Peter Smith. He works at a nearby dealership. And yes, he replaced my 993 wiring harness all of those years ago. I might use the PCA. May not get anywhere, but that is likely the best leverage.

Matt Romanowski

Have any of these failed with just street driving?

M758

If the part or system fails only under track use then I don't believe their is any liability on Porsche. These are street cars not race cars and to be honest and level the Porsche wishes to support a car after track failure is good will. Porsche is not like every company and should support some track use, but I don't believe their is a legal need.

Matt Romanowski

That is what I was after with my question. I know the warranties and stuff say that track use is not covered, but I think that is a little lame on Porsche's part. Why else would you buy a GT3 RS?

But then again, you can buy a brand new race car and it still has lots of problems. I think there is a biker saying about "if it has **** or wheels..."

wanna911

The problem with that is that this failure is happening on 2-3 year old GT3's. Part of the reason Porsche makes so much money is their motorsports program which is largely popular because of Porsche's popularity at the track.

It's a matter of principal to me either way.

To answer Matt's question, YES, this has occurred on street only driven cars according to my Porsche mechanic.

bauerjab

A product that is used for its intended purpose is expected to work without causing any injuries.
That is the legal issue. As for whether track use fits within these cars intended purpose, I have no idea. The answer may not be as simplistic as some people suggest.

mhm993

I was at the OVR event last year with the antifreeze spill. The "catastrophic leak" happened to an experienced driver who is well regarded in the region, and it was inevitable they would make this requirement. Given that I was in the Schattenbaum "when antifreeze attacks" episode a few years ago, from a 996 turbo letting go, I'd say it's a necessary stance.

PCNA could care less about our complaints, even though we're their best customers. Just consider how many intermediate shaft engines, never driven at the track, have blown up, with no apparent concern from the manufacturer.

Tedster

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/


•If a safety-related defect exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment, the manufacturer must provide a remedy at no cost to the owner. Your complaint is the first step in the process.
•We do not have to receive a specific number of complaints before we look into a problem. We gather all available information on a problem. Your complaint is important to us.


Everyone with this failure on the road should contact NHTSA. They will track the incidences and force Porsche to make a no-cost fix if it is appropriate in their estimation. Sad that it takes this but this is a case where our tax dollars can work for us.

Exigent

The cars are not " banned" from Mid- Ohio, OVR is requiring use of a non- glycol based coolant or documentation of permanent repair like welding or pinning the coolant pipes. As an earlier post pointed out - using water or a product like Watter Wetter isn't a bad idea regardless.

Just to give a little background, one of our chief driving instructors has had this failure occur on two separate occasions so OVR may be more sensitive to this issue.

mdrums

The deal is when you drive your car on the track you have no recourse or warranty with PCNA...end of story. Say's it right in the owners manual.

cello

I do not vouch for the info in the following post or for the poster. I also thought the timing interesting. But, for the sake of completeness, see here:

https://rennlist.com/forums/9268769-post1.html

blake

This topic has been covered "ad nasuem" on the 996 & 997 GT3 boards over the years... As Bob stated, coolant hoses are popping out of the engine on the track. I am not aware of this happening on street cars.

I think the angst is that a PCA region is demanding that either 1) a DE participant run Water-Wetter, or 2) the participant spend $1500-2500 to either weld or bolt-in the coolant hoses to the Mezger engine.

Like the famous Rennlist "oil-wars", some don't want to run Water-Wetter in their GT3s as that is not approved by Porsche either (for GT3s under warranty). Others argue that the coefficient of friction for water-wetter is the same as coolant, so that solution is not addressing the core issue....

We shall see how this plays out... Reminds me of the M96 engines grenading on the track due to oil starvation. To the best of my knowledge, Porsche never issued a TSB. We shall see what they do here... If history is our guide - nothing.

-B

jcb-memphis

Hi.

What I see so far:

1. It is a problem.
2. A solution exists that costs money. The local, high end indy quoted me $4k. Welds only...they refused to do screws in place or otherwise.
3. It has happened to street-driven only cars. So the NHTSA and lawyers are going to be quite interested.
4. No deaths have been caused by this yet afaik, but that will likely change. The carrera GT/Ferrari case should raise alerts.
5. I sent the link to this to the PCNA "contact us" link on their site.
6. Some feel it is worthy of a lawsuit.
7. A big dumping of water and perhaps water wetter might be just as likely to cause me and those following to spin/crash/get hurt...



Jeff

ltc

Wake me when someone wins a lawsuit.
In the meantime

Matt Romanowski

I understand you're mad that you have to do extra work to your car, but you can't go crazy and blame Porsche for everything. No one is saying you can't track your car, you just have to prepare it appropriately. Should we sue them becuase we have to put a hose clamp on the oil cap too?

And to try and link this situation with the Carrera GT/Ferrari case is ridiculous. They are not even close to being the same.