jcb-memphis

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...quired-de.html


Looks like a class action suit waiting to happen....anyone here have the ear of PCNA? Perhaps they could quietly fix cars at dealers with this to avoid the press "porsche fails to cover their cars' failures at tracks, Porsche car clubs not letting certain Porsches models including track oriented ones get driven on track until defects fixed at huge expense..."

Until someone gets killed, then PCNA will be out a LOT of dollars and a suit will be guaranteed. And they'd lose.

Not what PCNA wants out in the public.

I for one would love to drop my car off at the dealer, get a loaner, and get it back a day or 3 later all well...



Jeff


(cross posted on renntrack...if you do, please contact pcna for us and have some rational thinking applied to this....tia)

SeanR

Link isn't working for me.

Veloce Raptor

Linky no worky.

What's the real issue?

Gary R.

A cursory look and I couldn't find even what model car Jeff is referring to...

Maybe it's this - http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...quired-de.html

Some sort of coolant pipe repair requirement. That or run water (which you should anyway on a race track!)

jcb-memphis

Here is the list in full....and I can run watter and wetter water, but it would be nice to be able to just do a DE and not worry about such....


Issue is if you have a GT3, GT2, turbo (gt1 block cars, so 996/997), no antifreeze for a mid-OHIO DE ....unless you have a fix. DE for me is just for fun and my car is my daily driver....so spending 1500 to 2500 to fix something that should never have been an issue and could kill me or the guy behind me seems to be something PCNA should address before they get sued, IMHO. That is the issue. I think PCNA has a design flaw that affects safety in their "high end" cars....to say the gt3 is not meant for track use is, shall we say, questionable if that is PCNA's point of view....

Dumping water with wetter water in it on track cannot be trvivial either in a corner if the guys behind you are at 8/10ths+...

I can see this rule being shared for all PCA regions in a short period of time.


wwwDOT6speedonlineDOTcom/forums/996-turbo-gt2/267479-coolant-pipe-repair-now-required-de.html


Fix: PCNA to take care of people via a tsb at no charge....as needed, for the life of these engines.


Jeff

Texas2Step

I can't. If you follow this logic, you'd end up either banning every water cooled car on the planet (which no doubt would make a bunch of air-cooled folks happy), requiring water wetter only in all cars, or require replacement of all coolant hoses and fitting on all cars every two years. in my opinion, someone is making a mountain out of a molehill.

jcb-memphis

The issue is there have been real incidents of glued metal to metal fittings in these cars giving up on track, more than a trivial amount....causing enough concern for OVR to require this.

So, with all due respect, I don't think this is an all water cooled engine issue, this is a gt1 block cars issue.

Regardless, it is now in the open and a huge liability issue, and more importantly, has a fix figured out. The issue is cost.


Jeff

Veloce Raptor

Excuse my ignorance, but how many cars have had this failure occur?

How many on track?

Is this a widespread issue, or more anecdotal?

jcb-memphis

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...egistry-2.html

http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/...blems/porsche/


https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...n-the-car.html

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...78778&d=0&nmt=


I am not a lawyer.......as it is documented to be an issue and if you "killed" someone due to it, in my opinion, you and your club (and PCNA) would be hung out to dry.....my 2c. OVR clearly felt it was enough of an issue to ban these cars unless the issue is mitigated. Sure, I could do water and wetter water..but I be dumping that on track wouldn't be fun either. I am not a hard core track junky or racer and have huge respect for all of you guys...but this affects me and anyone with one of these cars.

wanna911

The better question is how many cars have to have this occur for it to be a major issue? Every 996 and 997 Turbo, GT2 and GT3 is at risk of this failure happening. Considering you can hardly find more of anything at the track other than Corvette's, it's a huge deal, especially to us who track our cars.

A sudden catastrophic fluid spill right on the rear tires is becoming more and more commonplace. There are loose fittings on most of these cars waiting to fail.

I drive at Road Atlanta. Failure in just about any turn would be very bad. It's a poor design and Porsche should be responsible for fixing it. There are several cases documented in the 996/997/Turbo sections on Rennlist and some documented on the 996 TT board on 6speed.

It's becoming quite common. To the point where I don't even want to follow another car that could be at risk.

kurt M

Anecdotal data point.

I have seen 2 on track and know of four total. Existing parts can be cleaned up and tig welded.

mglobe

I had a Miata dump coolant on the track in front of me a few months ago. Viking had a Corvette he was instructing in spontaneously burst into flames. 996, Boxster, Cayman, and 997 engines blow and sometimes drop oil. So do E36 engines. And God knows how many 944 Turbos have dumped oil or coolant on the track, had brake failures, or went up in flames. Cars break on the track, and sometimes it's dangerous. Properly maintained cars break less often of course, but cars break down sometimes.

jcb-memphis

Agree, but this one has a clear fix and is a documented defect.

Not a "random" failure. That will still happen if these cars get this issue mitigated.

Lawyers love this sort of thing...PCNA should just do the right thing in my opinion for two reasons:

1. It is the ethical, right thing to do and that has a lot of weight in marketing.
2. Risk management reasons...it would be cheaper to just fix it than to have a class action/death induced suit....less money to lawyers in the long run. And less bad press.


Jeff

ltc

So start a class action lawsuit. There, that was easy.

jcb-memphis

Litigation is what is ruining a lot of things and I'd prefer not to be part of the problem.


PCNA, if you are reading this, and I am sure someone at PCNA is, please do the following before some lawyers get into you:

This affects every gt1 block engine...water cooled.

1. People that have had it fixed should be re-imbursed (Sharkwerks alone has done a lot of these....).
2. Dealers should cover loaner cars.
3. The coolant fluid, all parts and all labor should be covered.
4. We should just be able to go to a dealer and get it fixed.
5. Going forward these repairs should have a standard repair part warranty.
6. Engines should get a PCNA decal saying they have been fixed...for tech inspections.
7. If no dealer is nearby, there should be an option for independent shops to do the work....


My 2c. Keep in mind, these cars are banned by OVR from MidOhio...so while all is said and good, there is an issue....sarcasm and such aside.