38D

If a person owns a Turbo/GT3/GT3 and can't afford a 2k fix, they shouldn't be driving the car at the track. We're not talking about a sub 5 thousand dollar car here.

While I appreciate this may be an issue, this thread seems hyperbolic. The 996 turbo has been out for more than a decade, yet in 2012 this is suddenly a huge issue. I'm sure this happens, but there are many other part that can and will fail under track/race conditions. We are each responsible for maintaining our cars for the track, which means upgrading/replacing stuff as it breaks. On my SPB known issues under race conditions include coolant reservoirs splitting, the lines to the PS pump melting and dumping PS fluid, shifters breaking...there are others, just like with any car.

Just my opinion

jcb-memphis

No, it has happened with street only cars. It is therefore an NHTSA issue.

See the registry, I think posts 135-148 region. There are more. And, if you find a mechanic....say Sharkwerks....they do it proactively. And all of these tracked cars....get driven on the street too....


No, not a track only issue.

Then after you do 10 DE's...you drive home and kill a family on a curvy 45mph road....um, an issue. Does NHTSA say any of these cars ever used on track cannot be used on the road....at some point, the issue needs to be addressed and everyone involved has safety as an issue.

jcb-memphis

ISSUE exists on a brand new GT3RS 4.0....sorry to those owners. The "pinnacle" of all things 997...ug.

This is not routine maintenance folks. The fittings will still be ca ca if you change the tubes (changing the tubing is not a bad idea too).
And, as stated, I plan to fix...I just think it is a danger to all....so NHTSA should get Porsche to recall all of the gt1 water cooled cars. If a person gets killed because of this, your hyperbolic argument will be laughed at in court. If the system fails, I plan to man up - so please go elsewhere with the financial criticism.

It may be affecting 997gt3's more than other variants......

I would prefer to not pay for it out of my pocket, but that is my perspective. If you guys want to pay 4k out of pocket (what the shop quoted me, but that is new tubing, new fittings, welding, new fluid, probably new tanks, etc....the whole enchilada...), Sharkwerks for screws was under 2k if I got the car to them...I am in the midwest, so not likely ...and the screw solution prevents a blow out...it doesn't prevent the glue from going bad at some point....but it may be enought to prevent the issue as it is possible that motion and heat are at work...if the fitting cannot move, the glue may be fine long term. We've not heard anything from a screwed person's car and frankly, the thread of doing it with the engine not dropped. It certainly will keep others safe on the road and on the track. It could come down to one guy doing the gluing being an idiot or perhaps after the famed beer break he/she was a little lite on the use of the agent. Who knows.


I feel bad for Porsche. Have a few bikes and the glued and screwed thing was big way back...and epoxies are amazing glues...they got burned by the one they chose. I am still not sure why they did not thread the fittings too for insurance, but go figure. I am sure they regret their choice now because is is just crappy engineeriing and they are at their hearts (after a marketing firm) an engineering firm.

Porsche Design means a lot less to me now than it did. But, they should do the right thing and there is one thing that clearly stands out as the right thing to do: fix these engines. All of them.

Just my opinion.

.

PedroNole

When Swamp People is a re-run, I switch to this thread.

Gary R.

After reading this you NEED a Hyperbolic!

jakermc

Hey Jeff, if you are so concerned about the safety of your car and and the cost to fix it why are you investing in new performance parts like a front splitter?

Kind of makes it hard to take you seriously here in light of that. And I bet a lawyer would have a field day with that one.

jcb-memphis

Yeah, 400 dollars. And something that has been a project that a lot of us have been working on for a long time.


Jake, you ok? Seem awfully hostile. I would direct that towards the dodo who designed the fitting in gt1 block water cooled engines. Per your sig, you don't even own one...so why the need to poop in this pot? Seems like a lot of the racers here take that "in front" attitude into these threads with a meanness and grit that is couched in sarcasm making it less obvious perhaps or somehow more socially acceptable (a sign of insecurity?). No need. Just don't type. The cement car thread, the labia squeezing avatars, the bouncing *****...funny. But this is serious stuff and if you are following a guy just out for fun in his new gt3 (2011) on a curving road and pop..and you go into a wall, you may be upset.

Let me repeat this for you: I am taking my car off the track until the issue is resolved. I suggest you do the same if you have a non-mitigated GT1 block water cooled engine. If you care about your assets off track. I think that is where the lawyer will have a field day if you get hurt or hurt someone.

Jake, I love your .sig listed car collection. None are relevant to this save they may follow one of these cars.



Swampy dudes, swampy! Eh GTC4 rennpoints champ?


jeff

wanna911

You are kidding right, a front splitter makes the car safer and more stable under most any normal condition given the lift at the front axle on the 996. And its not going to make it any less safe during a catastrophic coolant spill. .5 of a lap faster or 1 mph faster around a corner does not exponentially make you in greater danger.

Where did you come up with that nonsense.

For that matter what about all the GT3 owners that mod their cars to handle better, should they not do so or take the mods they had on the car already off.

Or better yet anyone with a 996/7 GT3 or turbo shouldn't bother driving at all.

jakermc

I apologize, that was not meant as a personal attack. It just seemed like a very odd inconsistency to me.

With regards to my stake in this game or anyone elses, you are missing the big picture. Nonsense lawsuits and such raise the price of cars and this sport for all of us.

jcb-memphis

From my perspective, unless this issue is resolved, anyone in one of these cars has his or her assets up for grabs and they are taking the sport's fate with them. Frankly, if I were the PCA head of tech national, I'd ban these cars unless mitigated. Wetter water and water fill would not count as mitigation. Screws or welded. Recepts and tech guys getting skilled to see the repairs. At some point we trust the brake flush...for the stuff that cannot be seen, that signature on the tech inspection would have to cover that issue.

For those annoyed owners who pay US taxes and for those on the road with them that are concerned about this issue anywhere: http://www.nhtsa.gov/Contact

PCNA: Please do the right thing. People here are sure you are reading this. Thank you. I love my car and love where you guys are going. But this is just an error by engineering that needs to be fixed before someone is hurt or killed.

The big picture is people getting hurt trumps the cost of a sport...keeping it safer lowers costs.


Jeff

wanna911

Jeff, there is good momentum in the GT3 sections on this, seems the issues is far more prevalent on the GT3's. Would be best to gather as much statistical information as possible given the forums is still going to be a small sampling of the total number of vehicles.

The internet hysteria of it can add to the affect so some solid numbers could help. In the meantime stay off the rev limiter on track as I know for a fact this will cause coolant hoses to pop off. And don't ride close to anything with a GT1 block on it.

I have an 03 and haven't seen any 03's or 04's with the issue yet and have been told the glue was changed
sometime during the 03 model year production. Also have yet to hear of any 997 turbos with the problem, if you hear of some let know. Will change my sense of urgency in getting a fix.

Bob Rouleau

Wanna911: the issue exists on all GT3s irrespective of year. I've seen it on 2010 GT3RS.

As to using water, race sanctioning bodies insist that we do NOT use antifreeze for exactly the reasons we're discussing.

A thin film of water is a lot less slippery than antifreeze and if you have hot tires it doesn't cause much of a problem.

Lastly, the new permanent antifreeze as supplied by Porsche does not evaporate the way the older stuff did. We have to treat it like an oil spill with oil-absord and a lengthy clean-up.

I use water-wetter in my RS. Oh, and IMHO the design PAG used in our cars is beneath their usual level of excellence.

jcb-memphis

Thanks.

I say fix them all...to be safe. Fundamentally a bad design. PAG should do the right thing worldwide....IMHO.

That video I posted above...997TT coupling coming apart in guy's hands. Unbelievable.....

Here it is again:




Love the guy above telling us to just do maintenance on this sort of thing. Yeah, right.


Jeff

jcb-memphis

So, if I do water wetter and water, it is not "as bad"...and I may have misunderstood those above. If it happened mid corner...

And, the numbers in a post above said antifreeze takes friction down another 10-15%. Water is 50% less than dry...and water wetter was desribes as "as slippery" as antifreeze...just easier to clean up.

Not sure what to make of all of this. My read of the data was a blow out of water wetter and water would cause a spin/crash too...just be easier to clean up.



Jeff

wanna911

Wow, getting mine pinned asap. This is ridiculous.

And to talk of Porsche going up on prices for us getting this fixed, they are doing that anyways, look at the price of the 991. Their profit margins are huge and the US is their largest market. We need to do something or they will just keep putting us and our friends in danger with this crappy engineering.

Not only that but then they will try to void the warranty if you fix it and if they fix it they do it with the same crappy glue. Its a lose lose for all of us and needs to be remedied, by Porsche!