Help request: anyone here have connections with PCNA...
02-13-2012, 10:34 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Just scared...link to the ferrari/cgt was meant to outline how survivors act after an issue only.
I don't think running just water with wetter water is safe for this situation either....a sudden massive failure will spin me and/or wreck the guy behind me...it will be easier to clean for sure though.
Note, I don't want to sue them...LTC does.
I just want PCNA to fix the cars so they are safe - that could mean some novel, cheap option too. Maybe new fittings/reinforcements via some NASA developed super epoxy that is good to 15 million heat cycles would be used. I don't know...
(NASA here means the space agency..sorry..should have been more clear..)
jeff
I don't think running just water with wetter water is safe for this situation either....a sudden massive failure will spin me and/or wreck the guy behind me...it will be easier to clean for sure though.
Note, I don't want to sue them...LTC does.
I just want PCNA to fix the cars so they are safe - that could mean some novel, cheap option too. Maybe new fittings/reinforcements via some NASA developed super epoxy that is good to 15 million heat cycles would be used. I don't know...
(NASA here means the space agency..sorry..should have been more clear..)
jeff
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 02-13-2012 at 11:21 PM.
02-13-2012, 10:46 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
I'm with Jeff on this, and his analogy to the Porsche/Ferrari lawsuit is defendable... I know that many of you on this board race Porsches, but the majority of us on the GT3 boards take part in HPDE events. The issue here is liability.... Let's say I am participating in a DE and leak coolant all over the track. Someone drives through it, spins, hits a wall and then dies. It won't take long for a good lawyer to search Rennlist/6Speed/Pelican and other websites to learn of the "chatter" around this Mezger-engine issue. Now, TWO parties are in the hot seat: Porsche and me. The lawyer will argue in the civl suit that I knew of the issue (my presence on these boards) and did not take appropriate action. They will also argue that Porsche never addressed the design flaw, and is also to blame.
I know that most racers have a code of conduct, and understand the written and unwritten rules. However, the DE world is much different. To that point, only in recent years have insurance companies decided to EXCLUDE HPDE for coverage. Additionally, the HPDE is THE first time event on a track for many drivers.
We all know what is happening to our youth (entitled, coddled by parents, blameless, etc.), and we all know that parent's are the enablers. Well, those parents are on the track NOW and those kids will be on the track within the decade...
My $0.02,
-Blake
I know that most racers have a code of conduct, and understand the written and unwritten rules. However, the DE world is much different. To that point, only in recent years have insurance companies decided to EXCLUDE HPDE for coverage. Additionally, the HPDE is THE first time event on a track for many drivers.
We all know what is happening to our youth (entitled, coddled by parents, blameless, etc.), and we all know that parent's are the enablers. Well, those parents are on the track NOW and those kids will be on the track within the decade...
My $0.02,
-Blake
02-13-2012, 11:46 PM
#51
Three Wheelin'
Things sure have changed. No one seems to remember the 944 family car issue from the 80's... I bet Dave Klym still does.
In 1995, PCNA, or maybe it was PMNA, published a letter to the editor in Pano describing why you shouldn't use sway bars bigger than M030 on the cars as relates to ball joint failure on aluminum arms. That was all they did.
The factory race cars used arms with a different joint design... but the lowly DE guy was left to fend for himself...
Now we have folks in water-cooled 911 street cars concerned about coolant leaks and liability associated with accidents. Not quite the same as the good old days...
In 1995, PCNA, or maybe it was PMNA, published a letter to the editor in Pano describing why you shouldn't use sway bars bigger than M030 on the cars as relates to ball joint failure on aluminum arms. That was all they did.
The factory race cars used arms with a different joint design... but the lowly DE guy was left to fend for himself...
Now we have folks in water-cooled 911 street cars concerned about coolant leaks and liability associated with accidents. Not quite the same as the good old days...
02-14-2012, 12:02 AM
#52
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You keep saying you don't want to sue, then say you should sue for them not fixing it. You talk about You believe your car has this problem - SO FIX IT! Enough whining - fix it and drive.
02-14-2012, 12:35 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Matt,
Whining is saying things people don't want to hear. Sometimes they need to hear it. If a guy in a green GT3RS dumps water in front of you at a DE or on track...just water, suddenly, causing you to go into an armco or the like, and you get really hurt, don't whine to me about it.
Seriously, I mean you no harm. The issue from my end is not about my car alone. Fine, I lose a few bucks. The issue is all of them.
Jeff
Whining is saying things people don't want to hear. Sometimes they need to hear it. If a guy in a green GT3RS dumps water in front of you at a DE or on track...just water, suddenly, causing you to go into an armco or the like, and you get really hurt, don't whine to me about it.
Seriously, I mean you no harm. The issue from my end is not about my car alone. Fine, I lose a few bucks. The issue is all of them.
Jeff
02-14-2012, 01:39 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
Wow !
If you are that worried about the others and you want to do some risk management for yourself as a GT2/GT3/TT driver, then buy a big umbrella policy.
As for suing Porsche ? Some day someone will do it, then they will be forced to price the cars higher or just go out of business and then where will we be ?
Anyone price a small aircraft recently ? Any idea why they are so expensive ?
Anyone remember the Dr that died in his new 930 way back when and his widow sued Porsche for selling him a car with "race car" speed/performance and not properly telling him ? - Like he didn't know it !
The problem with the sealant/epoxy only seems to arise in extreme circumstance cars. Cars are machines, something will always fail on them, and it can always be turned into a life or death situation by a grieving widow or a hungry attorney with nothing to loose but 50% of a settlement to gain.
Suing is not the answer, fix the issue to handle the increased stress put on the car due to your track driving or increased speed/sport/DE driving.
If you are that worried about the others and you want to do some risk management for yourself as a GT2/GT3/TT driver, then buy a big umbrella policy.
As for suing Porsche ? Some day someone will do it, then they will be forced to price the cars higher or just go out of business and then where will we be ?
Anyone price a small aircraft recently ? Any idea why they are so expensive ?
Anyone remember the Dr that died in his new 930 way back when and his widow sued Porsche for selling him a car with "race car" speed/performance and not properly telling him ? - Like he didn't know it !
The problem with the sealant/epoxy only seems to arise in extreme circumstance cars. Cars are machines, something will always fail on them, and it can always be turned into a life or death situation by a grieving widow or a hungry attorney with nothing to loose but 50% of a settlement to gain.
Suing is not the answer, fix the issue to handle the increased stress put on the car due to your track driving or increased speed/sport/DE driving.
02-14-2012, 02:29 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
Wow !
If you are that worried about the others and you want to do some risk management for yourself as a GT2/GT3/TT driver, then buy a big umbrella policy.
As for suing Porsche ? Some day someone will do it, then they will be forced to price the cars higher or just go out of business and then where will we be ?
Anyone price a small aircraft recently ? Any idea why they are so expensive ?
Anyone remember the Dr that died in his new 930 way back when and his widow sued Porsche for selling him a car with "race car" speed/performance and not properly telling him ? - Like he didn't know it !
The problem with the sealant/epoxy only seems to arise in extreme circumstance cars. Cars are machines, something will always fail on them, and it can always be turned into a life or death situation by a grieving widow or a hungry attorney with nothing to loose but 50% of a settlement to gain.
Suing is not the answer, fix the issue to handle the increased stress put on the car due to your track driving or increased speed/sport/DE driving.
If you are that worried about the others and you want to do some risk management for yourself as a GT2/GT3/TT driver, then buy a big umbrella policy.
As for suing Porsche ? Some day someone will do it, then they will be forced to price the cars higher or just go out of business and then where will we be ?
Anyone price a small aircraft recently ? Any idea why they are so expensive ?
Anyone remember the Dr that died in his new 930 way back when and his widow sued Porsche for selling him a car with "race car" speed/performance and not properly telling him ? - Like he didn't know it !
The problem with the sealant/epoxy only seems to arise in extreme circumstance cars. Cars are machines, something will always fail on them, and it can always be turned into a life or death situation by a grieving widow or a hungry attorney with nothing to loose but 50% of a settlement to gain.
Suing is not the answer, fix the issue to handle the increased stress put on the car due to your track driving or increased speed/sport/DE driving.
defending Porsche on the forums while suing them for millions? you are exposed Viking: http://www.chamberlitigation.com/vik...elin-wiedeking
02-14-2012, 07:25 AM
#56
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02-14-2012, 08:30 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I was kidding. And I fully respect what you are saying - I am off the pot..
Suing is not the answer I am hoping for...I just wish Porsche would come out with some sort of "discounted" fix for people...say it is $500 for the proper job..they'd cover a lot more, but inherent in the process is the owner buying into the need to do it. If they offered it, they'd probably be off the hook....just saying. We'd get our cars "high heat certified" and have a reciept saying they were fixed to a standard. Seems cheapest option for Porsche and us, a win win compromise.
If it was a few bucks, no issues. At leat 2.5k to fix coolant lines via TIG welding..(my local speed guru shop...$4k)...for an issue that can hurt me or my friends, that somehow crossed a line for me. I am just a lowly DE guy. I don't have the cash reserves of many here nor the talent. I am one of the people PCA was invented for frankly. Right now, I am taking my car and me off the track until I have this figured out or fixed. DE is not worth it in my calculus. Others are free to use their own set of things to make their own decision. I view the issue as real and frankly so does a PCA region tech section. I had hoped to try Mid Ohio this year. Looks like an awesome track.
Frankly, I wish there were more data on the issue: heat cycles, etc.
Suing is not the answer I am hoping for...I just wish Porsche would come out with some sort of "discounted" fix for people...say it is $500 for the proper job..they'd cover a lot more, but inherent in the process is the owner buying into the need to do it. If they offered it, they'd probably be off the hook....just saying. We'd get our cars "high heat certified" and have a reciept saying they were fixed to a standard. Seems cheapest option for Porsche and us, a win win compromise.
If it was a few bucks, no issues. At leat 2.5k to fix coolant lines via TIG welding..(my local speed guru shop...$4k)...for an issue that can hurt me or my friends, that somehow crossed a line for me. I am just a lowly DE guy. I don't have the cash reserves of many here nor the talent. I am one of the people PCA was invented for frankly. Right now, I am taking my car and me off the track until I have this figured out or fixed. DE is not worth it in my calculus. Others are free to use their own set of things to make their own decision. I view the issue as real and frankly so does a PCA region tech section. I had hoped to try Mid Ohio this year. Looks like an awesome track.
Frankly, I wish there were more data on the issue: heat cycles, etc.
02-14-2012, 10:03 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
defending Porsche on the forums while suing them for millions? you are exposed Viking: http://www.chamberlitigation.com/vik...elin-wiedeking
Very funny Bassam.
Obviously not me tho.
02-14-2012, 10:04 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It sounds like a lot of fluid comes out fast....even distilled water in the wrong place could be a big deal "on the line"...
Can someone clarify this....who has "been there"? Like in the car or behind the car...especially if water and not anti-freeze was dumped.
data....
tia
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 02-14-2012 at 10:19 AM.