Wayne you know I like your passion for the F1 game and your knowledge and all that. It is great to have your own pet drivers too.

But this - this has to be way of the track. No matter how thinly or contorted you want to define the word " competition."



" Schumcher has never won when he has had competition ..NEVER !!!!!! Same fate for VETTEL ..."




The man set the bar for everybody. That includes Senna RIP, Prost, Mansel, Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Stewert, Andretti, ... and kids yet to be race born and F1 bred yet.

And they can say all that ignorant crud they want about "not wanting to be remembered like Schumacher." Thats a bunch of dung!

 

Agreed Texas Rider, Schooomacher has all the records, that is not in dispute, what's in dispute is his talent and in 15 yrs of racing and all the records in the world , schooomacher has never been considered the greatest by anyone ...


Senna has .............


I would have a hard time placing Schoomacher in the top ten , an argument could be made for no 8 on the top 10 list , but one would have to be feeling generous to do so .

Consider this , Schoomacher never won a WDC for Ferrari before Barrichello became his teammate ( the faster driver i will add) and never won again after RB left , this is significant, because he used RB pace and setups same as lewis did when he had Alonso as his teammate . Ross Brawn himself stated barrichello was as fast Schumacher when he was interviewed about this 4 yrs ago , he kinda lied , Barrichello was faster ...


Examine his career away from the mirrors and you will see why the pundits and his peers will never consider him the greatest or why his predictable return is a flop, so much so LH has been qouted as saying he would never want to be remembered in the sport like schooomacher, it would be devastating to him ..


Vettel will have the same career if they keep propping him up, let the boy race and beat Webber if he can , my money is he cant as he had shown last year and again this year where the team would not let webber near him as you saw in Hungary , a race webber won last year i will add.

Vettel will fail if LH and or Alonso have competitive cars as Schoomacher before him, MSand SV cannot rise above the level of there respective cars or contracts, they can .



Yea sah WWWF1 the game continues .............

 

Your daily reminder. Please show me a post where I am a detractor or a hater. Waiting...

 

You must be talking about that clown in your pants ,,,,,stumps ... Maybe we should have lunch one day and discuss me , i will bring the sandwich !


Anyway you can dial it back , you wont be missed .............................

 

00...and 01 not so , custom Bridgestones at a time where all teams had to use them and Hakkinen no longer had a competitive ride ...

Good try .......

 

How about we start with these detractor comments.
Don't expect to be cannonized any time soon. You have gone after Massa, in this thread alone, like Torquemada after the heretics.

 

As much as it pains me to agree with Sir A.Wayne in this thread, I would not place Schumacher in the same discussion as Senna. Senna was once in a generation, a rare blend of talent and compassion. Just a personal opinion.


Jane, you ignorant **** (just felt like using it, it's a classic SNL line from the past)...

Alonso has never won a WDC for Ferrari since leaving Renault, with his "stout teammates", acknowledging the fact that Briatore and Symmonds were always on the highest moral grounds.
So I believe your above argument doesn't quite hold up...

 

You should be a history teacher.

It's acceptable to you that McLaren had the advantage of a Newey designed car for 1998 and 1999, but Schumacher having bespoke Bridgestones for 2000 and 2001 is unfair?

And during the 1998 and 1999 seasons, when Hakkinen had the Newey cars, and greater support from Ron Dennis than did DC, wouldn't you agree that Schumacher was vastly more competitive to Mika than Alonso has been to Vettel?

I think even Alonso would agree...

No one, certainly not me, is saying that you have to like Schumacher. What you might consider is that Schumacher was better able to capitalize on the rules and the resources available to him better than the competition. That is the bar he set.

Further...

Senna never had the advantage of superior machinery?
Senna never exercised his influence over who would be his teammmate?
Senna never employed ruthless tactics on the track?
Schumacher could not rise above the level of his car?
While I agree that RB is quick, why did it take 7 years for a top team to pick him up? Surely EJ would have sold his contract to Ferrari or McLaren (or Williams) had there been an offer. Must be a reason...

I've always agreed that Alonso is a fantastic driver. Let's see if he can build the team around him. There really are no excuses.
Funding? Not an issue?
Developmental resources? Not an issue.
Testing? Same for everyone.
Tires? Same for everyone.
Teammate? Agreed that Massa is not as quick over a season.

Can Alonso use the rules and resources better than the others?

 

We agree on a lot more than you are willing to let on ........

Wanna bet on Alonso not winning a WDC for Ferrari ..... I bet you a dual trace tekI( I need one ) that Alonso wins a wdc for Ferrari ohh and matching signal gen ...

 

Boss!!!

Bespoke bridgestones for his Ferrari that the others had to used 2. No matter what else is done to the car , THE TIRES IS MOST IMPORTANT ...

Schumacher had Ross Brawn and Jean Todt as well, imagine if Alonso had Jean Todt and Ross Brawn with him now at Ferrari ....



Pleaseeeee ............avg as Vettel ....Faux .......bouncy bounce .....



Senna:
Senna never needed the best machinery to make the others look sedate , he did it in a Toleman, Lotus ( while being surrounded by multiple WDC) and again in an uncompetitive Mclaren in 93. Comparing Schoomacher to Senna is akin to comparing Obama to Churchill ..

Alonso:
He has all that is necessary including the agreed vig, i expect results and so does he and being the best currently he should deliver. Hamilton is his only talent challenge really , but another WDC is not in his cards , this is supposed to be the Vettel Alonso show and it will be, stay tuned , Ferrari was late getting there game together so Faux1 might become faux2 ...

But as Schoooey there is no Greatness there for vettel , his peers wont be fawning over him , they know ...........ask them !!!


PS: Schooooey blocked Barrichello from going to Ferrari in 98 he choose Irvine, did you see the Irvine interview i posted last month. While still under muzzle order he did say enuff.. Schoooey knew Barichello's pace, Senna knew Barichellos Pace and spoke about him alot before his death . Barichello was no slouch and would have been WDC if he was British or euro sprong, et al Montoya ...

They were good enuff much better than Button , JV, Damon Hill .................. g'day!!!!

 

Big difference between a hater and not having respect for someone. I doubt many respect racers that accept #2 status. It goes against everything racing is about. He always puts himself in the hole early on and then tries to salvage the season. Same thing happened when he was Kimi's team mate. I would respect him more if he carried his own end of the bargain, but he doesn't.
Raj

 

Go easy on Massa Raj, He is not allowed to same as Webber, the difference being Massa is not as fast as Alonso , Webber is a good match to vettel ...

 

This thread should be killed. It's embarrassing...

 

Tires ARE most important? Well, yes, if the car and driver can make the best of them.

Using your logic then, the value of having a Newey designed car (and how it works with the tires) is not as significant?

Schumacher didn't have Jean Todt, Jean Todt had Schumacher. Ross Brawn followed Schumacher to Ferrari. This is fact. Again, Schumacher was able to manage the available resources better than his peers.

Senna's drive in the Toleman at Monaco was epic, but he and Prost were being reeled in by a another young German...

Senna brought the Honda engines to McLaren.

The MP4/4 was the easily the class of the field. Perhaps the greatest F1 car in history. The '90 and '91 cars were also very good.

Senna never had influence regarding teammates?

I would like to see Alonso win a Championship for Ferrari. I'd be happy to see him win more races...Can he make the best use of his available resources?

I did not vote for Obama and I suspect you did not vote for Churchill...

 

Hell no....... The Ferrari was the better car , by far , Irvine would have won the WDC for Ferrari if they did not lose one of his wheels for 60 seconds during a pitstop .. they farked him !!!

Ask Mika Salo ..

Ferrari had to let Irvine go after he became a race winner to avoid the same issue RB is now having getting Webber to play number 2 . The Ferrari was the better car, Mika H the better driver , kinda where Vettel and Alonso is currently.