A.Wayne

Lewis ...ahhh, errrr.... go and play with some analog circuits ............

ltc

I can't. I've tried. I am still in shock over Jim and Bob. I can't believe how much it has affected me.
That's why I'm here ... just trying to relax and enjoy the show.

So, Nostradamus, what are the odds that Raj takes the bait and actually makes the bet?

Never mind.....

wilhelm

No I didn't mean a race, that wouldn't be close at all. I win and get your 968 Turbo, you win and get my Mazda 3!

Yes a friendly wager, I win and you change your pic to Red Bull and refer to Alonso as DV for 6 months. You come up with what I have to do if I loose.

RajDatta

I don't hate Vettel or call him names (I am not someone who likes hatred or negativity). It would be hard for me to come up with a comparable wager. I like Vettel and believe he is pretty good. I just don't think he is as good as Alonso or Hamilton.
Not sure how we address this. Its a lose lose situation for me, LOL.
We can always wager a bottle as well. I could have asked you to change your signature but realized that you don't have any.
So, going forward the bet is, who will score more points, Alonso or Vettel. We will not count anything up to this point, fair?

My993C2

I am not part of this bet, but this does sound fair. Wipe the slate clean from this point moving forward. Who scores the most points in the last 10 races of the season? Alonso or Vettel?

As far as comparing Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton. They are three different types of drivers. Vettel is the least experienced of the three though Hamilton is not that far ahead of him and we are still seeing Vettel develop. Alonso is the most experienced and he seems to have a good mix of when to be aggressive and when to hold back. Hamilton is pure driving talent, but Hamilton seems to think he is the 2nd coming of Ayrton Senna and is doing the same things Senna did (ie: Lewis will put his car on a part of the track where there will be collision and let the other driver decided if they want to get into an accident). When these tactics work, Hamilton looks brilliant. When they don't work there is a lot of carbon fiber lying on the track. I see Vettel as he gains more experience becoming more like Alonso (being aggressive when he needs to, but also holding back if need be since you can not win races if you do not finish). Lewis on the other hands wants to be another Senna who once said, "The moment you stop going for the gap is the moment you cease being a race car driver". It's okay for Lewis to be ambitious and trying to emulate Senna. Let's just hope he never goes over the edge with his ambition.

ltc

I knew you wouldn't take the bet ...

multi21

In fairness to Raj, Wayne didn't take the bet either. I'm ready to ship my bottleof Patron to you, but want to make sure Wayne does the same.

There's a lot of poultry around here lately....

Larry Herman

This is one of the most insiteful things that I have read in this racing forum. They are all different, and that does not necessarily add up to who is better. It is the right combination of talents in the car that maximizes those abilities that result in who is winning at the time.

Massa is fast, but no one would ever accuse him of being a gritty racer. When he is on a roll, he is all about speed. Webber is a racer. He may typically not be quite as fast as the 3 mentioned above on a given weekend, but he can pass and he will fight to the end. So which one of these 2 is better? It all depends on the car that you put them in. I think that Massa would be horrible in a Red Bull because it does not have the top end of the Ferrari, making passing for him even that much harder. I think that Webber might struggle in the Ferrari because it is a harder car to make go fast, but passing certainly should not present any problems at all.

From my vantage point, the performance of a driver has to be evaluated in many areas and over a reasonable time before one can say that they are truely great or merely adequate.

333pg333

It's funny how we keep reading that Webber is considered a sort of 2nd class slowpoke but still a racer. I'd be willing to bet he has set more fastest laps than most over the last few years.

Larry Herman

Maybe it is undeserved, and I remember rooting for Webber when he would pull some outrageous qualifiers in cars that did not deserve to do that well, only to back up during the race. Of course, he was a younger man in those days. Then again, if it is only Alonso, Hamiton and Vettel who are considered "somewhat" faster, that is not bad company and by no means make him a "slowpoke".

multi21

Countrymen often see things through rose colored glasses as we've witnessed with Flying Finn and his defense of Kimi.

But the bottom line is that Webber is in a Red Bull car that is either equal or very close to Vettels and has out qualified Vettel only twice and is 0 for 9 in terms of beating Vettel in a race this year.

Last year prior to the injury Webber was as good as SV but as SV gets better each week MW is in decline

ltc

Again, I will gladly hold the bottles in escrow.

Circuit Motorsports

That is completely counter to your earlier look at Webber when you said he was a racer. I think he's a great speed guy but I don't think of him as a racer. Out front he can walk the field but I don't ever think of his name as someone who will bring a car up through the field. I do think he is tough as hell to pass too but I don't know if I think of that as racing although as I type this I think it should be.

It still tough to figure out who really is a good racer with the way the F1 car behaves. Ridiculously short braking zones, crazy aero, awesome tires etc. take a lot of the chances for the 'racer' to really shine.

morganabowen

All this talk about Webber is silly, since all you have to do is look at the WDC 2011 points to note that Webber is second only to Vettel, and ahead of everybody else. With the exception of Vettel, Webber has more points then all the other drivers

multi21

But he is in the best car. And he's yet to finish ahead of Vettel in a race this year in 9 attempts.