TXE36

Yes, food for thought. I saw the whole thing unfold from the start and could have slowed down a lot more and I didn't have anybody behind me. In the previous two laps he had locked the right rear in that corner as well.

It surprised me when he moved, but I put myself in a position where that surprise could have had more serious consequences than necessary. Didn't think myself as a sufferer of red mist, but perhaps just a bit.

-Mike

fatbillybob

Interesting case. I learned that video does not tell the whole story and the real-time 1st person view of the incident may be quite different from what we see in the 20 sec video. I guess you guys are glad I don't race with you because I would have done the same thing the spinning car would have done. Here are the reasons:
1- you rarely ever back up on a race track. That is unpredicatable
2- the direction of the nose of the spinning car is 95% chance the direction he will go from a near stop assuming he has regained control. A predictable action is that he will go forward.
3- passing where minimizing risk is just what is done. What is more risk free than passing behind him if he is stopped broadside? His nose is a threat to the passer and passer must assume he will not move into passers path. Therefore, if the passer is going track right he has increased the likelihood of contact with the spinner.
4- the broadside spinner blocks the entire track and a passer has to guess whether to pass in front or behind him. A smart person would pass behind him even if he is dead stopped because, who backs up on racetracks?
5- the spinner moving track right opens up 2/3rds of the track width just by moving forward. He has done passer a favor and directed the passer on where to go. He was completely predictable from my point of view.
6- the spinner protects himself because his car can take an impact much better fore or aft than broadside and presents a smaller target.

OK I'm ready to be corrected because I don't want to be that guy who causes problems.

PedroNole

Dave- This thread is over 3 years old now... Wow, did you know it's been that long? Thanks again for doing this.

Veloce Raptor

No, I guess I didn't! Time flies when we're having fun, eh?

mark kibort

Great advice. The best is to use your common sense. And when spinning, to put "both feet in", until you are in a direction that can regain control either going backward or forward. 90% of the accidents i see, or have seen, show a guy, loosing control at the exit of a turn and then coming cross track. Thomas Eng at RA in WCGT. rookie maneuver that destroyed the front of his car and almost totaled a innocent viper that was following and hit him coming cross track. it seems the art of car control is a rare craft now.
being predictable during the crash is what saves your problem from being someone else's. letting cars spin and then shoot across the track backward is totally preventable, and causes most incidents, especially in DE groups where they are most common.

regarding this section of track and the incident. i think the driver did the right thing too. he had time to get moving, and did it in a way that didnt effect anyone, and certainly didnt close any escape paths for approaching drivers.

If im racing with you and you have this kind of incident, and deal with it like was shown on the video, you will get a wave from me!
now, if he did that when i was 50 feet from him, as i would be passing on the right where most of the room would be.... we would have a problem and probably words in the pits. I'm sure he saw there was no one coming, and proceeded. I think if this kind of incident bothers you , you are in the wrong sport, or a little more seat time to get use to the temperature in the pool!

Mk

noturavgm

First off I wanted to say that this has been a fascinating read thus far and I think its great this thread has gone on so long!


Now on to a specific question for ProCoach (or others in general):

Peter, I was perusing your website last night and found your "basic training" pdf. One of the sentences in there reads, "Those who brake earlier and easier while getting their downshifts done and out of the way are back on power sooner."

This is somewhat at odds with a few other threads I've read in two ways. First, the early and easy braking. I understand that this ultimately preserves corner entry speed by allowing the driver to absolutely fine tune their final moments of braking and turn-in. However isn't the end goal to truncate the braking zone as much as possible while still maintaining the vehicle's balance and the driver's ability to smoothly modulate/remove brake pressure? It would seem that early/easy braking is a good way to start but as you progress that slowly gets supplanted by harder/later braking right up until the point where you start upsetting the chassis etc. Help me understand when one is better than the other etc.

Second, getting downshifting out of the way quickly. I suppose this has more to do with your car's gearing and whatnot during that particular corner but I've heard many folks say to focus on braking and then as you begin to come off the brake get down to the proper gear. In the pdf statement do you mean get your shifting done Well before turn in or just in enough time that it isnt affecting you?

Thanks!

Gofishracing

they let you drive in short pants at TWS !!!

TXE36

PCA never does, but when its really hot, the TWS PDS events (which are HPDE only) sometimes allow it. TX afternoons at TWS in July and August can be brutally hot. At one event last year it was 108F with about 138% humidity. Well, the 138% is a joke and exaggeration, as it was only really about 125% humidity. PCA sits out TWS in July and August.

I've been known to run the A/C on the track. One of the "perks" of a dual purpose car. The A/C will work in my track car until such time as I have a tow vehicle.

-Mike

Veloce Raptor

Earlier & softer braking, and truncating the brake zone as much as possible, are not mutually exclusive. The easier you are on the chassis under braking, the less braking you have to do...

noturavgm

True true. So in terms of 1-10 pedal pressure, what do you consider "softer"?

Any example of a Northeast turn where this is especially beneficial?

Veloce Raptor

T6 at Watkins Glen is a great example. Depending on the car and the exit speed out of T5 (Carousel), maybe 3-6 out of 10.

noturavgm

Headed there for the first time in October, we shall see how it goes!

Veloce Raptor

Another example would te T1 at Thunderbolt (NJMP). So many folks brake WAY too hard & late (when thhey are not fighting for position in a race), and it does not help them...

noturavgm

I am usually a victim of that early in the day at T1, then slowly remember how much speed you can carry through that corner.

Veloce Raptor

It's easy to get wrong. I have ridden with VERY experienced drivers/racers there, and made a huge difference for them by getting them on the brakes a bit sooner and a lot softer.