Larry Herman

You're just too fast.

fleadh

This is exactly the problem I'm facing rite now. Last week I went out with a buddy/pro to my home track (Thunderhill) and was trying to figure out how to get faster after I had plateaued in lap times. Here's a snapshot of my motec data which describes exactly what you're saying (ignore T7/T8 was held up by a slower car):



I brake a little earlier, carry a little more speed at the apex, but that causes me to understeer slightly on mid-corner to exit (check the steering angle) which keeps me from being 100% throttle as earlier as he is. Needless to say I had that problem on all the corners before long straights which was the biggest factor in our lap time difference (1:48.5 vs 1:50.2).

-mike

Veloce Raptor

Yup! Thanks for posting the Motec traces, it tells the tale. Another common behavior is, for example, tracking out of a right hander at the normal place track left, and then "forcing" the car way track right (almost the curb to cuurb driving I mentioned earlier) for a following left hander, just to get a wider arc. Sometimes, this forcing the car where it really doesn't want to go is slower than allowing it where it does want to go and having a slightly less wide arc. An example of this is the 8-9 complex at Watkins Glen.

swftiii

Coaches,

Great thread by the way...thanks for starting it.

Question: What advice can you provide to help me (us) overcome a driving plateau?

I feel that my progression has slowed. I only see the track a limited time each year which makes it difficult, but my lap times have only shown very minor improvement over the last 2 or so years. I feel very comfortable driving at my current lap times, but want to figure out how to get myself over hump and start to see my lap times dropping again. It is absolutely not the car that is the limiting factor (I'm about 1-1.5 seconds off where I would like to be), but how do you help students overcome the mental limits they place on themselves...

Thanks,

-Skip

Veloce Raptor

I would suggest either get & use a data acquisition system, and compare some of your better laps with others who are closer to the pace you would like to be at, or get some good instructors/coaches in your right seat, or both. Two of the biggest ways drivers create mental limits on themselves is by overbraking, and by coming off the gas & coasting in anticipation of braking. There are others, of course, thhat are more evident via data & in car instruction.

Land Jet

IMO, that book is more stories about his career than a "this is how to drive a Porsche" book. I thought it was one of the least informative driving books I've read. Maybe his style just didn't appeal to me.

winders

I won't disagree with you. But he asked for a book that talked specifically about driving a 911. I don't know of any others.....

Scott

ace996

I appreciate it, can't hurt to give it a shot. Thanks for the tip.

mark kibort

great data from T-hill. your times are very fast, but it shows where you can improve vs the other driver.

Looks like you are over baking, turn 6, have faster cornering speeds, but the other car is on the throttle earlier and it shows the big gains down the straight to turn 8. there you can see the differences. over braking, longer braking duration and earlier etc, thats the difference there. the later and tappered braking, will indicate more trail braking and that might help his car rotation to be able to get on the gas earlier too. I would bet if the same differnces show up for turn 9, the 10-11-12 complex, there is the difference in lap times.

PorscheG96

Why do professional racers approach corner entries at an angle? I see this in F1 all the time from the track-side cameras but don't understand why. For example, see 0:48-0:55 in this clip where Lewis exits the turn 9/10 sequence on right side of track, moves toward track center and then returns to right side of track to approach turn 11 at an angle:

Veloce Raptor

IMO in that clip, he does not steer the car back to the right, it appears the track is not perfectly straight there & he is just letting the car go where it wants to go. In addition, you (generally) want as large a radius to each corner as possible, and thus starting from the far outside edge of the track, if the car easily goes there, is a great way to open up this arc.

sig_a

Coach Dave,

What's your thinking regarding use of curbing as well?

Veloce Raptor

USE IT! Unless: the curbs are brutal and/or your suspension won't handle curbs well and/or you have to purposely drive to the curb....

mark kibort

unless the curbs are painted and are slick

I think a more probable explanation is that if you notice, lewis has a tremendous amount of exit speed, which takes him to the birm on the exit. he cant stay on the birm SO, he has to com back on track. by doing so, and to not upset the car or slow it down with too much turn input, he drifts toward the middle, (there is some turning input left in at the exit that causes this) only for a fraction he fades to the middle left, and then drifts back to the right to set up for the next left hander with a small amount of turn input to the right. that straight looks pretty straight to me.

as I said above, he is just coming back from being off the main pavement, on the birm and its the momentium that is required to deal with as you approach a straight from being on a birm on the exit of the prior turn. Now, if here was a opposite turn coming up, that movement would be natural to get off that birm and traverse the track , preparing for a right hand turn if there was one.
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utkinpol

Dave,
if you would - can you put in here a list of some core principles that pro guys use, as I and a lot of folks I personally know had a very similar impression like 'I just drove with a pro guy, he was amazingly fast and his lines were nowhere near to what I used to do'. Is it possible to 'summarize' what is it they do what we do not do?
Really, it is very little info out there of how one should 'draw a line' around depending of various changing factors and it takes heck of a mental toll to go from 'static' model into 'dynamic', especially on a track you run most of the time. But I would prefer to listen about that than to say too much of my own non-sense.