26 - The bottom line and long of short of it is that Senna crashed into Prost to secure a WDC. The following year, Senna crashed into Prost again, well just because and with no WDC on the line.

I'm a fan of Senna, but several here give him a pass and say Schumacher is dirty when he crashed into Villenueve. I don't see any difference.

MS parked it in Monaco. Admittedly not a good move.

MS was the #1 and on one occasion that was utterly visible, Rubens moved over on the last corner of the last lap of a race. Massa did the exact same thing where, like Rubens, he didn't disquise the "point by" and as a result, Ferrari paid a $100,000 penalty. With the exception of Raj and maybe a few others, the Alonso nut washers say somehow it is different this year. I see no difference.

MS never blackmailed his team.

MS never had team secrets from another team and used them to better his car and then denied that he had them until he turned state witness and was granted immunity.

Finally, I'll repeat, for Alonso to not have any knowledge of the crashgate incident is denial on the Alonso agologists. Just own it and move on !!! He was not implicated because he didn't have to dirty his little hands like he did at McLaren. Briatore makes his money off Alonso as his manager. If his driver goes down, his cash flow goes down. Flava Flav has been at this long enough.

RESEARCH THE COMMENTS UP AND DOWN THE PIT LANE FROM TEAM BOSSES AND STEVE MACHETT HIMSELF WOULD WERE SUSPICIOUS OF THE RENAULT TEAM WHEN IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. IF THEY THOUGHT THERE WAS MONKEY BUSINESS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WITHIN RENAULT, THEN ALONSO HAD TO HAVE KNOWN WHAT WAS GOING ON. WHAT CAN BE PROVED IS DIFFERENT.

Quick question, 26. Did you think that Hamilton knew about the spygate info when that went down in 2007?

 

Must suck to be you and go against an Alonso fan isn't it?

I can't remember who it was, but the drive of the race (i think) was Liuzzi), who climbed 11 spots.

 

Steve Machett...................

Hey numbnut .. it was Prost who closed the door in 89 check Wiki again.. Extremely obvious and absolutely positive you never saw that race live ... you were what , like 5 ...

 

I was responding to your previous returd about Alonso not doing anything special by winning , yet raved over the Stool finishing 4th .....


Well i 'm glad for Micheal it will do a lot for his fragile ego to finally finish ahead of Nico ..

 

Hold on...I already declared I am a fan of both... maybe not as much as a die-hard as some of the other Alonso fans. I refuse to defend his past and his personality as there are some vaild points on both sides. Can't I just like his driving?

Besides my application to the Alonso fan club was denied...

 

WTF are you talking about?

Sit down before you hurt yourself.

Here's a little history lesson for some of you:

McLaren 1988
The birth of the superteam, Senna joins the team and is paired up with the 2x WDC (at the time) Prost.

The relationship starts off real well, as Prost told me personally, Ayrton was very different than anyone else but we worked well together.

Early on they realized that they had a huge advantage over the entire field. So they agreed to self imposed team orders; whomever was leading after turn one would win barring any mechanical failure or incident. And that was how 1988 was run; Senna was World Champion.

At the start of the '89 season, the same agreement was had except this time Alain asked Senna, during a television interview, if it was ok for him (Senna) to back off a little when Prost was leading so that he (Prost) didn't have that much pressure to continue to push, Senna said no. Prost laughed it off and just said "**** you put me more pressure..."

Then they go to Imola (ironically). They were to race up until Tosa. Before the end of lap one, the race was stopped (Gerhard's horrific fiery crash at Tamburello). At the restart Prost took the lead but Senna passed him going into Tosa...he then won by 40 seconds.

Prost was furious and told Senna that he breached the accord. Senna's answer, "the accord was for the first start and it doesn't include the restart..." this marked the beginning of the end.

The rest of the year was turbulent with them taking shots at each other, but never putting anyone's life at risk.

Senna makes a move on Prost at the chicane in Suzuka...they colide. Senna blames Prost for the accident and Prost is champion.

In 1990 it went the other way, but that was as a result of the 1989 circumstances. That was payback. Now Senna was champion.

Just a little history...

Oh and btw, very good race for Michael as it was for the three guys ahead of him. Just being able to finish was an accomplishment, but to finish fourth is superb.

What a shame Nico's race was cut short. But the second biggest fail (after Weebo's of course) was Hamilton getting it wrong after one of the restates and thus allowing Alonso to regain the position that he'd lost during the lengthy pit stop. It would've been nice to see a Hamilton/Alonso battle.

 

Payback? Wtf is that? Is it in the rule book? I stand by my statement. He crashed into Prostate because he didn't like him and it stemmed from Prostate not wanting to race in the rain and other things that built up between those two.

 

I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong about these events in 89 and 90. You need to read up on history yourself before taking shots at others.

Prost was leading the championship in 89 and Senna deliberitly crashed into him. In 1990, also at Suzuka, Senna made it public that if Prost got to turn 1 before him, Prost would not make it out. These are on tape in interviews.

Senna was great, but a brutish, cold, calculated ahole on track where he would not mind taking out others, even if it included taking out himself in the process.

Read up;

http://www.prostfan.com/hk/specials/suzuka3-4.htm

 

He crashed into him in 1990 but as Senna himself said that was payback. I don't agree with his actions. Without a doubt he started the "win-is-the-only-just-result" type mentality.
I lived it, have sat down with Prost and many others of the era and have read plenty on it.

In 1989, why would Senna crash into Prost deliberately? That would only benefit Prost. If Senna didn't win, Prost was champion. Why would Senna hit him?

In 1990 Senna did hit him deliberately and admitted to it. Again he said it was payback. I don't agree with his actions.

Do yourself a favor, read something that isn't posted on a pro-Prost website called prostfan.com

The only one that is dead wrong is you.

 

+100

It's amazing how different opinions can be, on this particular case amazes me those that blame the accident on Senna. If anything, Prost was the one to blame, see the video and you will see he tries too late to close the door, Ayrton had more than half car in when Prost turns into him, but too late. If ayrton was not there he would be too early for the right hander turn in, then clearly his move was to block the pass, but again too late because Ayrton was already there... oh well guess will never agree.

 

Look who's talking now...

 

Thank you.

 

Wrong Pete.

Look at the video below and tell me how this is Senna hitting Prost deliberately? This was 1989 just in case you didn't know.

That is exactly correct! Here's the on board:

1989


1990- Again this one was deliberate...I don't agree with his actions

 

MJ, I think we're not understanding each other. Senna was trying to take out Prost to prevent him from winning the WDC while trying to gain points with 2 to go himself (if he doesn't take himself out which he managed not to do). Senna did not succeed obviously, but the point is that he tried to deliberately crash Prost.

Some will view it this way, and others will say that Senna was not trying to crash prost out. Did you ask Prost if he felt that his own teammate would not take him out?

In looking at that on board shot, Senna's move was a bit optimistic to come from so far back to try and out brake in that chicane. Once again, many will not agree, but some others will.

As someone else in this thread said, if what happened in Japan in 1990 happened today, Senna would be penalized and probably suspended.

 

Back on topic...what happened to Button? I would've thought those conditions would've favored his smooth style...