Torontoworker

And I can give you many, many examples in the 25 years working corners where we have had impacts with cars parked beside rails that people *thought* were in safe areas and where we would have had TWO drivers taken to race medical - instead of just the one that hit the empty parked car.

When we ask a driver to get out:

1. We cover drivers exiting cars under a waved yellow,
2. We ask corners two stations up track to find gaps for us,
3. When we have enough people we also have a worker beside you helping you out,
4. We point to the last car through the station and then signal you to start moving,
5. I've never ever had a driver even close to being hit while getting out. Remember, we're NOT asking you to get out of a car on the racing surface, hell no - but one parked on the side of the track where you don't have to step onto the track. Recall Mosport is clockwise direction - always pull off drivers left if given a chance to do so.
6. Your telling me you trust your fellow PCA divers not to hit you more then you trust us?
7. F1 drivers trust our directions and judgement... Just saying.
8. Have you ever considered the fact that drivers pull off with a medical situation and workers just sitting on their thumbs doing nothing, nor asking for the driver to get out doesn't resolve this issue? We have to date had three 'medical's', (1. Heart issue, 2. Stroke, 3. Bad food) where the car just pulled over way off track and parked. Had we just let them sit there and ignore us, things could have been worse for all as a result.
9. Sometimes we are directed by race control to 'get that driver out and over the wall'.
10. The problem with defining where/what is a safe area is that there really isn't anywhere over the wall (or even behind!) that is 100% safe and that also includes inside your car. Where is your gas tank located???

As soon as we *think* someone is in a safe area is when Murphy's Law attacks us. THEN the corner senior is second guessed and they find him/herself in a coroners inquest testifying. Been there done it. If I leave you in the car for 30 minutes I or race control are now asuming the risk that you could be hit as you sit there for those 30 minutes.

I will THEN be second guessed by YOUR families lawyer as to why I didn't 'keep demanding' you leave the car even though YOU ignored my signals to get out of your car if the worst were to happen. 30 seconds of caculated risk or 30 minutes of 'hoping' nothing goes wrong. Put yourself in our shoes.

Race control CANNOT tow every car that breaks down trackside - we wouldn't have much 'racing' if we did. They/us take the risk that an empty car will not be hit based upon the what we say and what we know about that area of the track. One area of the track can be safe during a dry race where as during a wet race everything changes where the cars end up. We take that into account.

Race control always want us to get you out of the car if we take the risk of leaving it parked - they harp on us over the net until we do get you out and over the wall and this was the first time this system broke down; where we had no safety benefits - leave a car parked - yet let the driver stay in and we also killed the racing through that part of the track to boot.

If your unwilling to take a 30 second risk of getting out of a car under a waved yellow and our direction - then why are you taking the risk of racing a car??? If everyone operated to that type of standard - you'd never have a corner worker run out onto a hot track to put a fire out in your car - that would be too dangerous - can't take the risk you understand. Lucky for all that we don't adhere to that thinking.

If it comes down to your safety against the wishes of race control to speed things up by not having tow's - there is NO compromise on my part as I discussed earlier - I will demand a tow and get it, (100% on my requests so far). But as I suggested before - many drivers like to play the, 'if I stay in the car they HAVE to tow me' card and this isn't fair for us and it isn't fair to your fellow drivers who have to play follow the leader through 30 minutes of a non racing yellow zone.

Torontoworker

WOW - didn't know this. Our experiance is generally PRO racing and CASC Regional racing and I know for a fact that in both of those situations the teams do not get a bill. No wonder PCA's insurance seemed cheaper then others. I thought it was just the 13/13 discount but perhaps it's also reduced because the club won't pay extra for an insurance company to pay for track damages or fees??

I have belonged to other CASC clubs, one of them the largest and clean up and tire wall restacking is just part of the track rental fee. We don't have much guardrail left to replace anyway other then the back straight. They don't charge lapping people for the odd re-painting of walls after they leave marks or drop oil. Weird.

Astroman

Yep. Agree 100%. I'm going to continue to do as the corner workers ask me to do. They have radios. They have flags. I trust them to know what is best for me and my safety. After all, we rely on the corner workers for ALL of our communication and safety instructions while racing... why would it be any different if my car is parked rather than moving?...

Thanks for your insights in this thread, TorontoWorker.

M758

Doc,
The pracitice is to stay in the car until directed by a corner worker or safety truck. They will let you know when it is ok to get out of the car.

M758

Here in Arizona I never seen an driver every being stuck with bill for track clean up or repairs due to an off. Not sure if the renting org gets a bill or the track considers it part of the cost. I do know in one case I had mechanical off an needed a tow. I heard that the track oganizer comment that a tow would cost HIM money as compared to me driving wound car back in after the session. Even so I have never seen a bill from that tow in nor would I expect to see one.

Jimbo951

Staying the the car is a normal DE practice, but in racing it's different.

A few years ago a group of us were discussing this exact issue: "At a race event, if you pull off to the side of the track, do you stay in the car or get out?"

At the next race I ask the PCA Steward and the official answer I got was "Safety is the responsibility of the driver". Thus there's no official recommendation/requirement to stay in or leave the car.

Three times I've stopped on track and all 3 times I jumped out of the car. First time was at Mosport and the flagger told me to get out. They never threw the yellow and I was towed out 30 minutes later. Second time was at VIR with 2 laps to go in the Enduro (I ran out of gas) and I thought the car was in a bad position. Third time was also at VIR with 15 minutes to go in the Enduro. I thought I was in a safe spot (after the Snake, just before the bridge) but sitting there with cars wizzing by at 100 MPH was just too much, so I jumped out. Then they went double-yellow and I was towed off.

NaroEscape

Our insurance has nothing to do with physical damage, it has only to do with personal liability. Basically, everyone that signs the waiver and is part of the event is covered against being sued. Say for example, someone gets hurt at a track event (DE, Race, etc), and they decide to sue the region, organizer, region President, event chair, guy that cut him off, flagger, etc. etc. etc.... the insurance covers you for that. NOT for fixing the track, fixing your car, or fixing anyone elses car. It's Event Liability Insurance, nothing more.

Ask the guys that race Watkins Glen how expensive that blue paint is for the Armco...

comatb

Torontoworker, thank you for speaking up. You have brought to light many issues that I hope will lead to improvements for next years race at Mosport.

PS: Please thank all the Marshall's for awarding us the Worker's Choice Award in the Yellow enduro. We were thrilled and still are.

Bill and Tyler Comat car #949(used to be #211)