Larry Herman

Peter, in the cup class, is it the private cars or the race shop ones that seem to be too fast? As long as they don't get caught, the incentive for a race shop to produce the "fastest cups" is pretty high.

Brian P

Also, why are cars not checked for compliance on their maiden voyage? It seems that when someone registers a new car and gets a log book, the only thing checked is safety items. It seems like that would be a good time to also check rule compliance.

Chads996

It definitely sounds like a SE regional problem then. Laziness perhaps? All I know - it took me freakin 30 min just to find the guy I had to hand the dyno and weight sheets over for a friend of mine. Total PITA.

C.

Geoffrey

When a new race car is presented to PCA for a log book, we check all safety items as well as class compliance items. Now, it is not feasable to disassemble a gearbox to check for gears, a shock body to check for valving, an engine to check for internal engine parts. We do have some technology to read ECUs, and a borescope which we can use to check internal engine parts like pistons, valves, crankshafts, connecting rods, gear ratios, etc. and we do that during the race weekend on selected cars. When we find out of compliance parts proper logbook and steward notification is completed. This isn't pro racing and we don't have professional scruts like NASCAR, so there is a limit to what we have time to look for.

Perhaps you folks can offer some additional suggestions for what to check for.

FredC

Geoffrey, how long does it take to check an engine with the borescope?

Geoffrey

It depends on what is being checked.

Weston

When it comes to older cars, it is possible that a previous owner did something that the current owner doesn't know about, which makes the car illegal. That said, there most certainly is intentional cheating going on too... This is widespread in Spec Miata and SCCA in general. I've seen a number of those cars not even running the spec tire. How much more obvious can you get, when you're running Hoosiers on a car that's supposed to be on RA-1's!? And there are plenty of other things as well.

Another possibility is people who stretch the rules and just go a little too far... The truth about racing is that hardly anyone is really interested in competing on a level playing field, no matter how much they say they are. I tried for years to obey not only the letter of the rules, but also the intent, because I just wanted a fair driver vs driver race... If someone beats me because I suck, then I can deal with that and learn from that, but if they beat me because they burned more $$$ or ignored the rules, then that's just lame and pointless. It's a frustrating experience because I feel like I'm the only one who actually wants a fair race, as I watch everyone else continually try to one-up each other, out-spend each other, and stretch gray areas in the rules.

Lemming

I number of us have requested more stringent testing, but little seems to be happening. I've also had numerous discussions with Ian. I'm hoping for improvement but not counting on it the rest of the season, maybe next if some major changes are made.

There is a high likelihood of at least two protests at the next SE race, we will see is anything is done when they are filed.

NaroEscape

the question I've always had about dynos is how truly accurate and consistent they are. I've had my car dynoed 3 times from the same dyno and gotten three very different readings. I run PMO carbs, so we are very suceptible to temp, humidity, etc. And very minor quick adjustments can make major changes to dyno reads.

Just curious from the guys that have been dynoed at the track because I really don't know: how close is the portable reading from the print out you have from a local shop? from the experiences I've had, I just don't see it being near the same, but that's just my opinion....

Larry Herman

Funny you mention this, because I think that many of the podium finishers in PCA that I know want EXACTLY that. The biggest gripe I see is usually not with cheaters, but more with rules that illogically allow one car to have a legal performance advantage that is not possible in another car, even though it is in the same class.

cobrien

Motors, shocks, and ECU are all sealed. Trans and diff may be too, I'm not sure. And they're thinking about re-flashing the ECU's back to stock on every car before each race. That's one of the things that appealed to me about the series - maybe it will actually be a true "spec" series, rather than in name only.

I've been racing Spec Miatas for a few years, and without a doubt there's a fair amount of cheating going on. It gets aggravating very quickly.

To go back to the OP's question, if all we're racing for is pride (which *is* all we're racing for), how much pride do you have if you cheat and beat everyone? You haven't proven anything, you can't feel good about yourself or the way you drove, so what's the point? (Rhetorical question, by the way....because we all know it happens anyway).

Veloce Raptor

Spec Racer Ford FTW






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

arrivederci

I also think that some 'discretion' could be exercised. I believe the scruts came down on a few people last year that had converted SC's to euro spec, but continued to run SC trannies. My understanding is the only difference is the 5th gear ratio...not many tracks were 5th comes into play. No advantage, no issue?

There's also a difference between a stock class car that has been built from the ground up that pushes the limits in all areas versus a stock car that has had the suspension tweeked. I spent last Friday on a dyno to see where my car stood - 185 rwhp. That's probably about right for a 'stock' euro SC with a tired motor. Meanwhile, some legit cars have been tweeked to push 210 rwhp. Not cheaters IMO, just people using the right exhaust, getting mixture set just right, etc. I don't want to spend the $$ to compete with them...between D and E class there are plenty of people in the middle and back of the pack to race with.

Brian P

I've seen several cars that got registered for a stock class with gutted interiors and even one that didn't have a passenger seat and was several hundred pounds under minimum weight.

I see people register in my class as a "prepared" car even though they should register as a "stock" car because the "prepared" car should be up one class.

Sure, these are very minor things, but I'm a fan of the Giuliani police enforcement strategy: enforce the small things and people will see that you are serious and won't try breaking the bigger things. Letting people slide with gutted interiors only shows that some rules are not going to be enforced and other rules are. Then it's a guessing game on what you can and can't do to the car.

VERBOTN

I just ordered some "X"'s, let me know and I will put your request in.....